Guest guest Posted July 11, 1999 Report Share Posted July 11, 1999 > > Srilaji an ISKCON leader? He's a GM leader!!!! > > That stands for Gaudiya Math? Yes, he's leading the way in trying to win us over the side of the ISKCON ship into another unproven and supposedly more 'blissful' boat. It's a gamble. Never give up something certain for something uncertain. Canakya. ys ada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 1999 Report Share Posted July 13, 1999 > How about considering the possibility that devotees are leaving ISKCON for > some very good reasons, such as maltreatment, cheating, lying, lack of > support etc. ISKCON does not have a good track record of caring for > devotees. Once someone has been "courted" into joining, the tone often > changes from one of encouragement to one of intolerance, criticism and > judging. If we took better care of each other, I don't think devotees > would be so eager to look elsewhere for Vaisnava association. Most > ex-ISKCON devotees with whom I've talked, were not initially attracted to > either ritvik philosophy or to Narayan Maharaja. They were just escaping a > painful environment and those groups were there with open arms. Because > they were treated better in these other camps, the attraction developed > later. There was something that left me "incomplete" upon reading these lines, for several days. What is missing is actually the information on how *exactly* devotees are being treated better in other Vaisnava camps. What is their structure, day-to-day life style, modus-operandi, the organization of society...? How women, children (caws as well as) are specifically taken care of? What is the social arrangement? What does it practically mean "to join Gaudiya Math"? I have spent some years living in the ISCKON communes. I could certainly recall quite few situations that left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Now, since one year there has been just nothing of a kind. It all goes fine. Nice relationships. I am being treated better!! But not that I am in illusion now that it all has changed on better. The simple reason for that is that I live now my own life, independently of what's going on in some ISCKON commune. Yet, I consider myself (and I am considered) to be the part of the "ISCKON camp". Maybe this is one way of having a "smiling" camp where people do not get badly treated -- not to have a society where people would come and get the opportunity to "rub" each with other. In ISCKON *everybody* feels as a victim of the *society* (in the case one feels mistreated, of course). It goes from a "bhakta Joe" till "Paramahamsa Maharaja". But then, the society itself is nothing but - us. What I would like to see is how much Gaudiya Math has advanced in the practical establishment of varnasrama dharma system, the system where all of us would be able to fit in without major conflict situations and stressful experience. If it is a type of organization that offers no solution to these problems, then I would consider it not very reasonable to compare GM camps with ISCKON in term of "better treatment". Because it is going for mixing apples with oranges. ISCKON is pioneering here. As far as I can see, other camps don't even bother about. Some even consider this to be something for unqualified people. So maybe ISCKON should not bother either, and thus get relieved from the whole burden and the blame for mistreating others? Why not just have some gurus giving the classes on the confidential topics of Krsna's pastimes and give initiations to those who come to them for it, and let the rest of the unqualified world make their lifes as they wish? Then none would be mistreated. But I doubt this is what Srila Prabhupada would want. I am not trying to find the excuse for bad things that happens in ISCKON. I am just trying to look upon a wider picture of the situation, when it comes to comparing ISCKON with other camps in term of treating people. Let other camps do the work, then let us see who does less mistakes. But no work brings about no mistakes, but no any other kind of results either. ys mnd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 1999 Report Share Posted July 15, 1999 > > > One reason is to > > affirm thier purchasing descisions. Like people who have Apple computers > refer to PC's as "Windoze"... > > > > You must have heard that on the Wintel conference. Nobody say's such things on > the Mac conference. I guess it was already understood! > > ys, > > Sthita Yes, I remember the old rousing arguments between Mac and PC users. Mac: 3.5 inch floppies are better - they aren't as fragile and they fit in your shirt pocket. PC: Why would you want to put a floppy disk in your pocket? Mac: Icon based operating system is easier to teach. PC: Text based rules! Mac: A mouse is a useful interface for a computer. PC: It's inefficient to take your hands off the key board. Mac: Drop down menus make navigation easy. PC: What's so hard about memorising whole different sets of instructions for each different program? Mac: Color is useful on a computer PC: Color computers are just toys. Ooops wait. Sorry about the time warp. I forgot that after all the sneering at Mac by PC, the PC now has 3.5 floppies, a mouse, graphics interface, drop down menus, and color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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