The Soul's Fall... The Final Word

[Guest guest]

I got the folio bug -- admittedly I have some very old version, but I believe

these quotes are accurate. These particular quotes seem to suggest Prabhupada

felt that the soul could exhibit his minute independence at any time. Love is

voluntary, thus when one is in the spiritual world he is there by choice, and

choice implies options.

 

To me Prabhupada seemed stuck on the point the the jiva soul is both eternally

individual as well as minutely independent. That would seem to be a basic

tenent of our personalistic philosophy. Preaching personalism was something

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was also stuck on.

 

In any event, this is a very broad topic that can be dealt with from various

angles, and I don't wish to present these particular quotes as the end of the

discussion.

 

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Bhagavad-gita Lecture, March 30, 1971, Bombay

 

Similarly, maya cannot cover Krsna. That is wrong philosophy. Maya can cover

the individual soul. Therefore because the individual soul is apt to fall down

sometimes under the clutches of maya, it is called tatastha-sakti.

Tatastha-sakti. Just like in the seaside the shore, the beach, sometimes you

see it is covered by water and sometimes it is land; similarly, when we are

covered by maya, that is our jiva-bhuta stage, and when there is no more

covering, that is brahma-bhuta stage. When we are Krsna conscious, then we are

brahma-bhuta, and when we are not Krsna conscious, we are materially

conscious, that is maya.

 

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About your question: The Spirit Soul is certainly eternal and changeless; and

the fall is superficial, just like the relation between father and son cannot

be broken ever. Now we are simply in a phase of forgetulness, and this

forgetfulness is called Maya. There is a nice example in the waning of the

moon. To us the moon appears to be changing, but in fact the moon is always

the same. So as eternal servitors of Krishna--our constitutional position--we

fall down when we try to become the enjoyer, imitating Krishna. That is our

downfall. -- Jananivas, Vrindaban, August 27, 1967

 

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Regarding your question about Supersoul, we take it from Bhagavad Gita

philosophy that the distinction between Supersoul and individual jiva soul

must always be there. The Supersoul never will fall under the clutches of this

illusory maya and the jiva soul has this tendency. So there is distinction,

yet, the two, Supersoul and jiva soul are also the same as much as the

sunlight and the Sun are qualitatively the same. So this is Krishna's message

that we are simultaneously one and different from Krishna. When the jiva soul

accepts the dictates of the Supreme consciousness Supersoul, his activities

will no longer be for the sake of personal sense gratification but will be

only for the purpose of gratifying the senses of Krishna. This attitude of

service is the perfection of the living entity. -- Hansadutta, Los Angeles

24th November

 

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Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall

down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the

soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his

independence. But his relationship with Krsna is never lost, simply it is

forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the

process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself

in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position.

The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and

the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing

new. -- Jagadisha, Los Angeles 27th February, 1970

 

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Bhagavad-gita Lecture, July, 4, 1974, Honolulu

 

After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world. Just like

Jaya Vijaya. There is possibility, if you do not stick to the spiritual

principle, even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of

this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no

contaminated soul can stay there.

 

He will fall down. Now, when the spirit soul falls down. Just like Jaya

Vijaya. Jaya and Vijaya became asuras. They fell down from Vaikuntha. But they

became asuras under the circumstances.

 

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Room Conversation, June, 23, 1975, Los Angeles

 

Dr. John Mize: Does Krsna know ahead of time that a soul is going to be

foolish and fall?

 

Prabhupada: Krsna? Yes, Krsna may know because He is omniscient.

 

Dr. John Mize: Are more souls falling all the time?

 

Prabhupada: Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for

all, but because there is independence... Everyone is not liking to misuse the

independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and

constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will

be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to

understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government

knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house

also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing..." Government

knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God

cannot know? Because there is tendency.

 

Dr. John Mize: The origin of that tendency is...?

 

Prabhupada: Yes.

 

Dr. John Mize: From where does that tendency come?

 

Prabhupada: Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that

independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is

independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down,

that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krsna says, yathecchasi

tatha kuru. "Now you do whatever you like."

 

Jayatirtha: Because Krsna is independent, therefore the part and parcels...

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Part and parcel must have a little portion of independence.

Qualitatively, part and parcel means... Just like you take a drop of water

from the sea. The, all the chemical composition is there in the drop. So Krsna

is fully independent. So we living entities we are drop. Still, the

independence quality is there in minute quantity.