The Soul's Fall... The Final Word

[Guest guest]

On 14 Jul 1999, Prashant Parikh wrote:

> Dandavat Pranam.

> All Glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

> Hare Krishna.

 

Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Prabhu, are you going

to come back to Houston anytime?

 

> Srila Prabhupada says that "ANYONE" can fall down from Vaikuntha in

> Bhagavad-gita Lecture, July, 4, 1974, Honolulu

>

> quote 1:

>

> After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world. Just like

> Jaya Vijaya. There is possibility,if you do not stick to the spiritual

> principle, even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what tospeak of

> this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no

> contaminated soul can stay there.

>

> He will fall down. Now, when the spirit soul falls down. Just like Jaya

> Vijaya. Jaya and Vijaya became asuras. They fell down from Vaikuntha. But

they

> became asuras under the circumstances.

>

> --------------------------------xxxx--------

> Comments:

> Srila Prabhupada says that anyone can fall down from the spiritual world

> if one does not stick to the spiritual principle. So it appears that the

> free will is there in the spiritual world and souls who are in this

> material world might have misused the free will while in the spiritual

> world and as a result are in the material world.

>

> Further he gives an example of how Jaya and Vijaya fell down. But then Jaya

> and Vijaya came to the material world to facilitate Lord's

> pastimes by becoming demons. I heard Srila Prabhupada saying in a

> lecture -- that when Krishna wants to fight, devotees come down as

> demons to help fulfil the Lord's desire.

 

This issue of Jaya and Vijaya was perplexing to Maharaja Yudhisthira

as well. However, Narada Muni explained this all to him very welland

Bhagavan Vedavyasa has recorded this conversation for our knowledge in

SB 7th canto, 1st chapter. This conversation deals with some

surprising matters, such as how individuals can attain the Lord

through fear and hatred. Just as the gopis attained Krishna through

their desires, Ka.nsa attained the Supreme by fear and others even

attained liberation by means of envy. This is because even those who

feared or hated Krishna were nevertheless meditating on Krishna's

personal form, His supremacy, etc. Narada Muni in fact notes that

hatred can lead to far more meditation on the Supreme Lord than

supposedly favorable acts. On the other hand, atheistic kings like

Vena do not have such good fortune, because they don't think of

Krishna at all: this is the lot of modern mayavadis, politicians, and

pseudo-scholars who try to reinterpret the Bhagavad-Gita in such a way

as to banish Krishna from the text.

 

As always, Srila Prabhupada's purports to this section emphasizes,

clarifies, and elucidates certain points made in the Bhagavatam. In

this particular case, Srila Prabhupada notes: "Therefore it is to be

understood that when Jaya and Vijaya descended to this material world,

they came because there was something to be done for the Supreme

Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is a fact that no one falls from

Vaikuntha." Since the only example of falling jivas that Srila

Prabhupada gave in the above lecture was that of Jaya and Vijaya, then

this lecture further reinforces the point made in the Bhagavatam

purports that jIvas descend from the spiritual world to do something

for the Supreme Lord.

 

> quote 2 :

>

> Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall

> down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the

> soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his

> independence.

 

I note that the above quote does not say the words "spiritual world."

So, what relationship or position is being discussed? Certainly a

devotee in the material world can be said to have "developed his

relationship with Krishna" to some extent. Usually, such individuals

do not fall down; the examples of fall-down in history and scripture

are small compared to the examples of progressive

devotees. Nevertheless there are examples of advanced devotees

falling, even a mahA-bhAgavata like Bharata Maharaja who had been in

bhava. Additionally, I can't recall the spiritual world being

described as a "position" for the living entity -- though one often

hears of the "position of Indra," etc. Without further context, the

quote as presented can't be taken as referring to fall from the

spiritual world.

 

> "In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such

> misconceived dream, and in that pure conscious state the

> living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but

> he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental

> love."

> Lecture by Srila Prabhupada(Tokyo Apr 20 , 72)

 

The above is from SB 2.9.1 purport; that lecture must have been on

that verse, with the above read from the text.

 

Yours,

 

Vijay S. Pai