Guest guest Posted July 16, 1999 Report Share Posted July 16, 1999 > > Am I right in thinking that it is his description of some future possible > community, or is this going on right now? > > YS Samba das Yo Samba, Haribo Glad you liked it. This community is going on right now in the fertile imagination of my friend, Bim, you know. The essay does have the effect, though, of bringing varnashrama out of the realm of abstraction and into the specifics of everyday life. It actually seemed like a place where I wouldn't mind living. Did you notice there were no ksatrias riding around on chariots in the description. Just wouldn't have been practical and real life is nothing if not practical, eh? Stoves, this is the stuff of life, eh! I sent Bim a copy of your letter and expect a reply shortly, and it could be a lengthy one at that, on the subject of stoves, which I shall forward to you. thanks tri The wildernes of Mauritius, eh? Sounds cool! Are there large snakes hanging from the trees and whatnot? Do the natives to the area have a practical method of cooking so as not to create a lot of heat as I take it for granted it's hot there yearound. I could be wrong, maybe its like northern India??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 > > This community is going on right now in the fertile imagination of my friend, > Bim, you know. The essay does have the effect, though, of bringing varnashrama > out of the realm of abstraction and into the specifics of everyday life. It > actually seemed like a place where I wouldn't mind living. Did you notice > there were no ksatrias riding around on chariots in the description. Just > wouldn't have been practical and real life is nothing if not practical, eh? > Stoves, this is the stuff of life, eh! I also noticed there was no description of how it was paid for. One of those annoying practicalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 1999 Report Share Posted July 18, 1999 On 17 Jul 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > > > This community is going on right now in the fertile imagination of my friend, > > Bim, you know. The essay does have the effect, though, of bringing > varnashrama > > out of the realm of abstraction and into the specifics of everyday life. It > > actually seemed like a place where I wouldn't mind living. Did you notice > > there were no ksatrias riding around on chariots in the description. Just > > wouldn't have been practical and real life is nothing if not practical, eh? > > Stoves, this is the stuff of life, eh! > > I also noticed there was no description of how it was paid for. One of those > annoying practicalities. > It is annoying. That money thing. Well, I guess its really about land first of all. And a landless roastabout like myself is in no position to be doing much talking, I guess. And then there's the matter of building a house on said land. And that also takes a heck of a lot of energy and money. I'd just prefer to grow vegetables and live kind of simply but I know I'm totally dependent on the dominant society for my survival. Actually I'd like to start building myself a home, but I've no land and I'm not sure where I want to live and.... The point is, Gosh, I'd LIKE to live in a grounded community where people actually support each other instead of living the "kill or be killed" way that is taught and encouraged by the structures of society at large (and seen in micocosms like the society of devotees). It seems like in the devotee society at large, the qualities of kindness and supportiveness were never taught as practices. Hence, although these are the stated qualities of a devotee, we find intense fault-finding and criticism running rampant. And it's so unfortunate, because we'll never build a community of devotees, without some ability to, first and foremost, be tolerant, forgive, and be kind to each other. We already have the most sublime philosophy; we're not lacking in that department. But constantly bashing one another or ourselves over the head with it, is not productive of a sane society. Take a look around. Is this what we wanted? A commpassionate society is the exception, not the norm. And it has to be developed intentionally, by a group or individually. And that is the big challenge for this here movement, as I see it anyways. But maybe I'm avoiding the larger issue of work. Am I? Anyways you're an inspiration, Gosh. See to them gourds, now. I love ya' man -tri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 And it's so unfortunate, because we'll never build a > community of devotees, without some ability to, first and foremost, be > tolerant, forgive, and be kind to each other. "and be kind to each other" I wonder what kind of sarcastic remark that might provoke! Come on all you criticisers, jump on that one! Not that humour can't have it place. I remember sitting in a class in LA once, given by Mahasrnga (then swami). He was saying how we have to love one another. I was sitting just behind HH Hridyananda Maharaja and Locana Prabhu. Just after this statement, the maharaja turned to Locan, put his hand on his shoulder, and said with sincerity written all over his face, "I love you Locan". It was so amusing. We already have the most > sublime philosophy; we're not lacking in that department. But constantly > bashing one another or ourselves over the head with it, is not productive > of a sane society. Take a look around. Is this what we wanted? Dead right. This bad attitude is everywhere. I have seen it often when a congragational devotee (ie anyone who lives outside, even if they have been initiated for 20 years or more) visits an ISKCON temple. A devotee will very quickly 'size you up' according to your appearance and demeanor. Once you have been judged in this way, and your position in the 'advancement' category has been noted, generaly the attitudes tend to be very dismissive. If you have not been to the temple for Mangala Arati, or lead a kirtan, or been seen chanting everyone of your rounds, then really you are just not worth associating with. Rather than try to understand where a person is at through ongoing honest diologue, (rather than constantly condescending to them), some devotees prefer to hide behind their own 'perfect' sadhana. Even the devotees in the temple are not spared. Once your weaknesses are known, the attitude is, "Oh such and such prabhu, well you know where *he* is at". > A commpassionate society is the exception, not the norm. And it has to be > developed intentionally, by a group or individually. And that is the big > challenge for this here movement, as I see it anyways. Exactly. This is the department where we need serious work. A lot of the problem comes from the leaders (whatever a great man does) as long as they maintain a false position. It is amazing to see how some people do this. Has anyone noticed a person they knew, who after taking sanyas, suddenly became a different person? (no names please) Sort of affecting sobriety, putting on airs? To me that is an indication that things aint right. What is the need to make such external changes? I spent a good bit of time with one or two of other devotees gurus (now absent), and the thing I often noticed was that they seemed to be relieved to associate with a non disciple, as they did not have to put on their 'guru' profile. They could actualy be just regular Joe's. Later I realised thats where they actualy were. Not karmi Joe's of course, but just that they did not appear that much more 'special' than any other average devotee. It seems that some leaders are actualy taking the humble position nowadays. Lets hope they are actualy genuinely remorseful, and not just riding with the times. Or am I just an incurable optimist? YS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 > > > It is annoying. That money thing. > Well, I guess its really about land first of all. And a landless roastabout > like myself is in no position to be doing much talking, I guess. And then > there's the matter of building a house on said land. And that also takes a > heck of a lot of energy and money. I'd just prefer to grow vegetables and live > kind of simply but I know I'm totally dependent on the dominant society for my > survival. Actually I'd like to start building myself a home, but I've no land > and I'm not sure where I want to live and.... Maybe Samba will start the Practical Varnashram conference and we could have a forum to discuss these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 > > survival. Actually I'd like to start building myself a home, but I've no > > land and I'm not sure where I want to live and.... > > Maybe Samba will start the Practical Varnashram conference and we could > have a forum to discuss these issues. Well I guess I can do that if Mukhya prabhu doesnt mind. I thought to wait and see if anyone else thinks it is a good idea. I mean it apears to me that there are a lot of vacant conferences, and considering the volume of practical issues on this conference (very little) maybe there is not enough traffic for a new one. On the other hand as you have expressed, it may be better as I know I left the conference for a few months as I could not handle the often more than 20 texts a day. So it might be more user friendly. Anyone else into the idea? YS Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 1999 Report Share Posted July 23, 1999 On 19 Jul 1999, Samba das wrote: "and be kind to each other" I wonder what kind of sarcastic remark that > might provoke! Come on all you criticisers, jump on that one! No jumpers! I spent a good bit of time with one or two of other devotees gurus (now > absent), and the thing I often noticed was that they seemed to be relieved > to associate with a non disciple, as they did not have to put on their > 'guru' profile. They could actualy be just regular Joe's. Later I realised > thats where they actualy were. Not karmi Joe's of course, but just that they > did not appear that much more 'special' than any other average devotee. I'm telllin' ya' prabhu, this whole guru subject just gives me the hebejebees. It could be great but there's one heck of a lot of agitated mental energy surrounding the subject. I burned out on it years ago. Ritvic shiksa diksha aie yai yai yai yai!!!! There are stellar devotees in our lineage who stand out as bright stars in the firmament, and they are effulgent and inspiring. It doesn't seem to be a complicated affair. The mind gets all caught up in it's own complicated, disconnected way of seeing things. The ablolute is perfect and complete. But I don't see it as a time to go out and look for a new guru, but to be gurus to each other. We've already been bequeathed a monumental amount of spiritual wealth, now we can freely share it. Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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