Guest guest Posted July 18, 1999 Report Share Posted July 18, 1999 On 18 Jul 1999, Krsnendu das wrote: .. > > Ameyatma Prabhu is soberly presenting information relevant to this need in our society. Unfortunately, rather than discussing the philosophy and the information presented, some devotees have been sending emotional "knee jerk" ad hominim attacks. They have accused Ameyatma Prabhu of improper thoughts as if they know what he is thinking. > Maybe true, but I still think his 'sober' public defense of his subtle interactions with teenage girls more than a bit bizaare. As far as I'm concerned, it was way too much information that he doesn't need to blissfully enlightened us about in order for him to make whatever points he wishes to make about Vedic culture. ys, Sthita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 1999 Report Share Posted July 19, 1999 In a message dated 7/16/99 11:40:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Janesvara.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: > As a > > mother of an 18 year old daughter , I find it repulsive that a 40 year old > > man, and he must be at least that if he was initiated in 73, would still > > be considering these things and with children young enough to be his > > daughters no less. > > > Are you saying that every 40 year old man in the world cannot love and honor > a younger woman? Maybe many young women seek older men because many of the > younger men prove themselves extremely immature and incapable of giving a > young woman the kind of love and care that an older man can. Is this not > beneficial to a young woman. Shades of Woody Allen and Soon Yi. Even the demoniac American court system did not swallow his story that his interest was in the best interests of his children. Just because someone is an older man doesn't mean he is mature, only that he is older. Many men have not grown up, only grown older. I would think a sign of maturity would be a diminishing desire for sex not an increasing desire. Isn't it curious that everyone rushing to defend polygamy and the "protection" of girls many years their junior do not have the same attitude about protecting the older, less attractive women in Iskcon who have never been married? My experience has been that when a man says this is a woman he is interested in protecting or when a woman says this is a man she could surrender to, what they are both really saying is this is someone I would consider having sex with. Sex may be there but pretending that expanding opportunities for sex is somehow Srila Prabhpada's instruction to hold near and dear, is not reasonable nor honest. > There are many examples in the olden days of our Vedic culture of much, much > older men marrying younger women. I don't think it is necessary to lump > everyone in. There ARE some honorable men in this world and most will be > found amongst the Vedically inclined. Yes there are honorable men found amongst the Vedically inclined, but our interest is spiritually inclined as well as Vedically inclined. Hiranyakasipu was Vedically inclined but spiritually challenged. Nor do I have to remind you that those who abused children in the gurukulas and women on traveling parties and in their homes, were also hiding behind the Vedas. One could even say that Hitler was hiding behind the Vedas, it is the motive of the heart that counts not the philosophy one expounds. > You will also find it "repulsive" when an immature, selfish young man abuses > your daughter in some way and breaks her heart. > I have faith that my daughter will be protected by Krsna up to that point that she is surrendered to Krsna. More than that I cannot hope for. She has her own karma, desire and transcendental awareness to deal with and I am under no illusion that I am the controller in this regard. There is no guarantee that an older man would be any less likely to break her heart. It is the consciousness that counts not the age. I believe that is the real point of the story that Ameyatma told. How great is our faith? Not that it is better for widows to remain unmarried. That was a detail, not the real point. > > Have we not matured to the point that our men can > > remain undisturbed by the glance of an naive girl. So involved with > > mundane matters, what genuine protection could he offer? > > > Why does it have to always be considered "disturbed"? To use your terms, > Have we not matured to the point of beginning to trust Srila Prabhupada's > influence upon the good hearts of at least some of his disciples? Focusing on poligamy and marriage with girls more than 20 years junior, at an advanced age when one should be withdrawing from the objects of the senses rather than contemplating them, does not suggest maturity or a good heart, it suggests a disturbance of the senses and the mind for that matter. It also borders on the perverse. > > And although he has recently written me a private response to my comments > > rather than share them with the assembled devotees, he has again not given > > one example in which Srila Prabhupada specifically sanctioned a second > > marriage, > > > Things take time, Mataji. The maturing process of KC is slow but sure. SOME > of us are sure to be inspired by it and manifest the basic symptoms in time. > It has been more than 20 years since Prabhpada "left". Many disciples have > continued to mature with age and wisdom; they may have become more qualified > than before. > That does not mean that poligamy is now a good idea. How many men in ISKCON have successfully managed one relationship? I have more faith in the maturity of those couples honestly struggling with the complexities of dealing with one other spirit soul on that level than someone anxious to expand his "service" in this regard.Let's try to get a grip on stable family units, before we expand the horizons for men to take more than one wife, especially at an advanced age. My husband has been protecting me for some years, but if he started talking about expanding his domain now that he is pushing 50, I would have doubts that he has actually made any serious attempt to surrender to the process of KC. Cloaking this type of mundane desire in the guise of service attitude suggests one is inhabiting the Egyptian fluvial plains rather than honest reality. > > nor explained why he is so focused on the topic of polygamy > > rather than planning his retirement from family life altogether. Is it > > really his Dharma to marry again so late in life? Should this be on his > > mind at all? Are there no references in folio ( I don't have it) in which > > Srila Prabhupada sheds unfavorable light on poligamy? > > > For a spirit soul poligamy is totally unnecesssary to be sure. But for > spirit souls with bodies these things are recommended in the Vedic culture. > You know you have read them. We all have. We can't just dismiss them. We > shouldn't. Yet utmost care must be taken in their implementation if the > remote chance arises. Some may benefit. > Someone who is pretending to be asleep cannot be awakened. Are you really suggesting that Srila Prabhupada recommended poligamy? It seems to me I have read more quotes when Srila Prabhupada said it was not a good idea for ISKCON than quotes when he (if ever) recommended it for ISKCON. I don't have folio, but I am sure those proposing poligamy are not presenting all the quotes, only the ones that serve their interests. There is a difference between acknowledging something did exist and recommending it for your disciples. > > Why is it we must continue to indulge criticism of women who happen to be > > less than ideal vedic women from men who also appear to be less than ideal > > vedic men? > > > There does not need to be any criticism nor does everything need to be seen > through such critical eyes always. We are all less than "ideal" yet we still > have to make the best use of a bad bargain. Srila Prabhupada's program of > varnasrama-dharma CAN make gentlemen out of some men and ladies out of some > women - in time. > ys, Jd Yes and that can happen without poligamy and without child abuse. ys, Kanti dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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