Guest guest Posted July 21, 1999 Report Share Posted July 21, 1999 On 21 Jul 1999, Samba das wrote: > > Or am I just in illusion? (invitation for a putdown there, or what!) > I guess that all depends of how many teenage wives you've got yourself lined up! Seems to me that all your ideas are good and that there is nothing stopping us from implementing them. Anyone can start a thread and then join the discussion. At the same time, vigourous debate on a wide variety of topics may not be all that bad. Sometimes you need to get your head (and heart) in the right place before being able to act constructively. ys, Sthita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 > Can we not use the bounty of intelligence that is clearly evident in this > conference, and harness it, instead of frittering it away on unresolvable > differences. I mean, can WE really make a difference on the 'souls fall' > issue, or the 'guru tattva' issue? What can we really acheive with all these > texts? > In guru fall, I think Srila Prabhupada ultimately says it best in numerous references "Somehow or other we have fallen". To search out the why is an interesting hobby, much better than watching television ( and given the sheer volumne of Mahaniddhis posts on multiple subjects we can assume he is either independtly wealthy, or else he doesn't spend much time watching TV) or following professional sports teams, but not really very important in another sense. As for the guru issue, that is obviously an eternal question. Within weeks of Srila Prabhupada leaving the planet, the great guru debate was centered around - if the first initiation was by Srila Prabhupada and the second by a neo guru, whose disciple is it? Remember that debate, anyone? Over the years, the particular guru issue being debated has changed, and the volume of writing on it increased exponentially, along with the bitterness in which it is carried out, but what is consistent is that there is always a controversy into which to jump, and that both sides can always make credible sounding presentations. My personal conclusion is that as long as their is no stable economic base for ISKCON, based on cow protection and the land, that is to say an economic system based on the agricultural archetype, rather than the hunter/gatherer archetype as is now current, then there will always be controversy. Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 8: Chapter Twenty-four, Text 5 :PURPORT Without protection of cows, brahminical culture cannot be maintained; and without brahminical culture, the aim of life cannot be fulfilled. Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1: Chapter Nineteen, Text ; :PURPORT Cow protection means feeding the brahminical culture, which leads towards God consciousness, and thus perfection of human civilization is achieved. > > > So why not keep this conference as it is, and start another conference > 'Practical Varnasrama' say. Keep this one as it is for all you who love to > just chat about all these different loosely related topics, and the new one > simply for practical suggestions, and news on what successes, or failures, > or any practical topics we may have. I noticed for instance that a lot of > useful stuff comes up the the 'apocalypse' conference. I feel that we need a > place where practical (varnasrama based) suggestions are kept seperate from > philosophical ideas. You can all be members of both, so as not to miss out, > but we can keep the practical stuff in one place, and my delete key will get > a break. > > Your servant > Samba das Great idea, I'm all for it. The VAD conference will be nice for recreational debating, but the Practical Varnaashram would be a nice forum for attracting a different sort of potential devotee who can't handle the sheer volume of VAD, especially when the surpressive fire school of debating is so in vogue. Do you know the mechanics of setting up such a conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 > In guru fall, I think Srila Prabhupada ultimately says it best in > numerous > references "Somehow or other we have fallen". Oops, I meant in the fall of the soul. Guru fall is a different can of worms. Ding dong the guru fell That makes it seem like Fall Decline It made us oh so sad Like Winter spirits small Dormancy But hope is still not gone "Cause soon the Spring looms tall Desire Then another guru rises And past Summers we recall Dolce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 At 9:06 AM -0400 7/22/99, COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote: > >Do you know the mechanics of setting up such a conference? Just write a letter to Mukhya Prabhu, giving a short description of the conference. If she agrees, she will set it up and post an announcement on Free Forum. You also need to tell her who the organizer(s) would be and whether it would be a private or public conference (although the organizer can later change that) Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 There are quite a few devotees on the 'Apocalypse 1999' conference that offer very practical information. One of them Carol Gilsen, is quite prolific in her very practical advise. I think she is a new devotee. It crossed my mind that she would be a good member of this conference. but then I thought that she might get blown out by some of the talk we have here. It occurred to me that this conference, as it is, is not really very friendly for new people. Also new people who come into this conference are often way behind in the issues being discussed, and may have very neophyte understandings of what is going on. That means that either someone has to take the time to bring them up to speed (which could take a few years in some cases) or they may just feel a bit initimidated and leave. Considering this I think that there is even more reason to start a practical varnasrama conference, so that new people who may have a whole lot of practical realisation which would be very helpfull in the implementation of varnasrama, dont have to wade through a lot of sometimes painfull rhetoric regarding the problems found in ISKCON, or having to get an earfull (maybe I should say 'face full') of our dissagreements, or the 'faults' of this or that person or leader. Further this is a 'public' conference. Maybe it should be private? The new conference (if you all think it is worthwhile) could be public. What do you think? YS Samba das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 1999 Report Share Posted July 22, 1999 "COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius)" wrote: > [Text 2497375 from COM] > > There are quite a few devotees on the 'Apocalypse 1999' conference that > offer very practical information. One of them Carol Gilsen, is quite > prolific in her very practical advise. I think she is a new devotee. It > crossed my mind that she would be a good member of this conference. but then > I thought that she might get blown out by some of the talk we have here. I have never really got into the "Apocalypse" conference just because the name is a little off putting. Perhaps we could start the Practical Varnaashram conference and invite the devotees on Apocalypse to join. Or else they could change the name of their conference and we could join them? Apocalypse is just so millenialist Christian sounding and my concept of the Apocalypse is that it is the end time , so what is the point really of considering how to survive it. A village based economy is the best possible way to survive cataclysmic times anyway, automatically, but you don't necessarily have to have a survivalist mentality to want to be part of it. > > > It occurred to me that this conference, as it is, is not really very > friendly for new people. That is an understatement. Topics here are usually for hard core devotees who are going to stick it out no matter how bad it seems. Not exactly attractive for someone just out cult surfing. > > Further this is a 'public' conference. Maybe it should be private? The new > conference (if you all think it is worthwhile) could be public. > > What do you think? > > YS Samba das New one public for sure. Could even be a good preaching tool. One thought though. Need a title with a catchy acronyn. VAD for this conference is easily identifiable. We could have a contest for best name with Varna ashram in it. Or we could translate varna ashram into English? Upfront warning - this naming would be a brain storming process and rules of engagement for brain storming is that the author of any idea, no matter how outlandish, must not be criticized. That has a chilling effect on the creative process. Criticism comes into play more as the final decision is being made. Practical Applications of Varna Ashram Education. PAVE. PAVE the way to a brighter future. Varnashram In Modernity VIM. Let's put the VIM back into ISKCON Socio - economic Paradigm Education and Application in Kaliyuga SPEAK SPEAK out for the future of Vaisnavism. Socio - economic Paradigm Education Lifting Losers SPELL Do we have to SPELL it out for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 1999 Report Share Posted July 24, 1999 > I have never really got into the "Apocalypse" conference just because the > name is a little off putting. That conference is a bit quieter now. I personaly liked it, as it had a lot of interesting stuff from well placed people about Y2K. it did get a bit boring though sometimes. Nowadays most of the texts are very practical Perhaps we could start the Practical > Varnaashram conference and invite the devotees on Apocalypse to join. I already did that (invite them to join a new conference) to see if anyone was interested. No reply so far. Or > else they could change the name of their conference and we could join > them? I dont think so, too much unrelated stuff. Apocalypse is just so millenialist Christian sounding and my > concept of the Apocalypse is that it is the end time , so what is the > point really of considering how to survive it. I agree the name is a bit oppressive, and not so appropriate, if you take apocalypse literaly. The idea was that some believe it could be a TEOTWAWKI situation (The End Of The World As We Know It). In other words major world problems brought on by the domino effect of many many unrelated (Y2K affected) infrastructure problems and other failures worldwide > Socio - economic Paradigm Education Lifting Losers > SPELL > Do we have to SPELL it out for you? I like that one! Sd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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