The Soul's Fall... The Final Word

[Guest guest]

>

> Again, I have never claimed that "eternally conditioned" is to be taken as

> an absolute. But, regarding the "jivas coming from Brahman" issue, the

> above quote from SB 1.15.27 itself rules out the notion of the jIvas

> coming from the brahmajyoti or any other non-material place. It's

> _material_ activity that's beginningless, and material activity does not

> take place in the spiritual world or in the brahmajyoti. That can only

> indicate that the jIva has beginninglessly been in the material world.

 

Again, you demand explicitness, but you yourself don't pay attention

to it when to uphold your ideas.

 

The analogy of this world as a prison has been given. So, it is said

that the *prison activities* are "beginningles" (or "eternal", since

nobody can trace out when they occurred in time). But it speaks

nothing about the "inmates" themselves -- their coming in, where

from coming, their previous life and relationship, their staying,

their leaving... So, based on the information about the _activities_,

you speculate it must be referring to all living entities. This is one

possibility of your error.

 

That the acceptance of absolute meaning of "beginingless" would rule

out the possibility of souls coming even from Brahman, is the clear

signal not to take such meaning literally. Why? Again, it would make

the material world "sealed" (this time form the "entrance" side, tough).

Since the clear information about the souls being unable to maintain

their position in Brahman but descending to the material world, is

being given, the conclusion is then that it is NOT the *quote* "itself"

that rules that out, but Vijay's literal application of the word

"beginningless". It needs some intelligence to understand why

"eternally" conditioned is to not be taken literally. Same for the

word "beginningless".

 

 

And thirdly, but not lastly. By your exclusive interpretation, you

are ruling out Srila Prabhupada whenever he gives the explicit

statements that give us the information on the living entity of this

world *having* prior experience of the spiritual activity in the

Spiritual World, in relationship with Krsna. There are **numerous**

statements of that kind, one just recently posted here.

 

On the other hand, Viyay is so far not in possession of a *single*

EXPLICIT information from Srila Prabhupada where he would *exlplicitly*

tell us that the souls of this world have NEVER been before anywhere

else but in this world since their very existence. All what's basically

left to Vijay is his interpretations, speculations, ruling out

Prabhupada's clearly opposing statements (in the name of Prabhupada),

and his OED.

 

 

 

- mnd