How to start varnasrama

[Guest guest]

>

> I was practicaly forced to go on sankirtan, and I hated every second of

> it, and felt completely useless and discouraged in my Krsna consciousness

> for YEARS as a result (the tactics used were the psychological demeaning

> of ones character, forcing one to try to act transcendentaly, even if not

> actualy qualified).

 

OK. So let's forget "some time of sankirtana" as the part of

the basic spiritual activities in Hare Krsna temples?

Then, how about brahmacaris going out to streets and bagging

money from the people, for their gurus? That's the general Vedic

custom. It is natural for brahmacaris to do it, isn't it?

 

 

 

> Srila Prabhupada did not wish to force one against his

> nature. Unfortunately Prabhupada had gone, and I was at the hands of

> people who did not care for Srila Prabhupadas long term vision. They are

> gone now.

 

Well, some got forced sex on them "against their nature", from the

side of the authorities. And you got traumatized by being forced

sankirtan on you, against your nature. True, some others may get

traumatized by being forced to go out in harinama, or to chant

the Holy Name in public, or even to bow down in the temple room.

All of these can be viewed as the violation of human rights, indeed.

 

 

The kind of spiritual austerities (tapas) from side of a disciple

that done for the sake of pleasing Guru and Krsna, is not something

that got to be fitting to our "nature", Samba prabhu. So that you

hated every second of it may speak well of your readiness to do

something spiritual that is "against your nature". On the other hand,

yes, none should be *forced* to do it against his/her free will.

Not everyone is ready for the same kind of spiritual austerity. Some

would want to do only that what goes along their nature (but then

one can not really speak of the austerity anymore).

 

So this kind of abuses might have been occurring, but that should not

be the reason to dismiss now the whole idea (idea of *sankirtana* as

one of the basic spiritual activity/austerity for Hare Krsna monks).

It would be an another absurd extreme. If the idea of the Hare Krsna

temple as the place where "natural" inclinations of so-called

"brahmacaris" and "monks" are to be exercised, then you missed the

"door". Your door should be then some college or some workshop where

you will be doing things according your "nature", and at home you

practice that much of the spiritual activities, ant that particular

ones, as you find to your likening. And this is exactly what many of

us here are finding now to be our position, after having to undergo

unnecessarily the pains of hating "every second" of the particular

temple life reality -- it is in the NATURE of *everybody* to live

in the temple as a Hare Krsna monk! So don't do it, on the first

place. And if you do it, then don't think how to cut the general Hare

Krsna temple life-style to suit your particular "nature", or the

nature of anybody and everybody who might happen to hit the door.

 

 

 

 

 

- mnd

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In short, yes, the abuse can happen in *any* occasion. So, no

forcing anybody on anyting should be the basic understanding.

That may refer not only to doing "some time sankirtana" (as

being that horrible proposal here), but also in implementing

VAD and forcing the people on anything of a kind.

[Guest guest]

> Exactly. We continue in the same old paradigm, even though we are losing

> people through lack of respect for their natures, and this is causing the

> movement to dissipate.

>

> Honestly, people complain that we are complaining, but there is so much

> injustice, it is our duty to cry out until we are heard. The way we are

> doing things in this society today, is NOT the way Srila Prabhupada wanted

> it. We must speak out, until things are changed.

 

I have been following the Varnashrama conference somewhat and really

do

appreciate all of your efforts to get the GBC's

attention to implement varnashram.

I don't won't to sound negative but I am really pessamistic about

anything

happening in this regard.

Is it really productive to keep on complaining about the fact that

they

haven't done anything about Varnashram for the past

25 years ?

Will complaining about the GBC not implementing Varnashram produce

positive

results anyway? This method doesn't seem

to be working at present

 

I have heard devotees say that it is good that the GBC has not

introduced

Varnashram into ISKCON because if they did it

would be absolute chaos anyway. Better leave the implementation of

Varnashram

to those who are expert and sincere in this

regard if we want positive results.

 

My humble suggestion to those devotees who are really serious and

convinced

about Varanashrama is that we should go

ahead and do it ourselves. We are not children anymore. We do not

have to

depend on the GBC if we do not wish to. We

can follow the GBC and ISKCON laws, but there is no need to be so

completly

dependent on them that we cannot use our

own initiative. Many of us have businesses which are not dependent on

the

GBC.

 

If we just manage to get one sucessful pilot project off the ground

within

the next few years the rest of the ISKCON world

will want to follow suit. One Varnashram College sucessfully run and

bingo

everyone will be converting our temples into

Varnashrama colleges for devotees to learn spiritual practices and

be

engaged and trained according to their varna.

 

If anyone is interested in a pilot project then please let me know. I

have

very little knowledge about agriculture, but have

financial resources and deep commitment to Srila Prabhupada's

instructions.

How many devotees out there are willing to

re-locate so we can all pool our talents in making a successful

project for

the pleasure of our beloved Srila Prabhupada ?

 

YS

Sumitra devi dasi

 

PS Please moderate this conference so that we can get some practical

results