Whatever

[Guest guest]

> I heard a lecture by His Holiness Bhakti Vidya Purna Maharaja in which

> Maharaja explained the difference between daivi varnashrama and asuric

> varnashrama. I hope my memory serves me (I at least need one faithful

> servant). I recall that the difference was that in the asuric varnashrama

> the people just say: "This is my varna and this is my ashrama. I am a

> businessman (for example). That's what I do." In a daivi varnashrama

> system the person would say: "I am a servant of Krishna. Today I may be a

> brahmana. Tomorrow I may be a shudra. The real point is my service to

> Krishna."

 

 

 

In the conference QaA, Srila Harikesa Swami has explained the

difference betewen daivi and asuric varnasrama dharma as follows:

 

 

"Daivi varnasrama is where everyone is situated according to his

qualities and not according to his birth. It further means that

everyone is working under the directions of the sastra and is

advancing gradually in spiritual life. It does not mean that everyone

is a devotee. Ordinary varnasrama or the asuric version means where

people are designated according to their birth and thus unqualified

persons start to dominate the society to the detriment of all. Thus

there is little advancement and little service to the Lord."

(COM text 992739)

 

 

 

I have also looked in SP folio, and there the same understanding

has been presented by Srila Prabhupada:

 

 

My Guru Maharaja also wanted to establish daiva-varasrrama. Yes.

There must be the human society, not this, daiva-varnasrama, not

this asuric varasrrama. Asuric varnasrama... Just like Ravana. He

was also son of a brahmana, but he was rejected, that "You are not

brahmana; you are raksasa because you do not care for Bhagavan

Ramacandra." So this is the verdict of the sastra. So therefore

daiva-varnasrama. Varnasrama should be established on the principles

of devata, to make people devata.

(761116SB.VRN)

 

 

"So these are the some of the glorious points of this fight. But he

depended on Krsna, Arjuna. Therefore he was successful, victorious.

You do, act as ksatriya. Not that as ksatriya he should become a

brahmana beggar, no. A ksatriya cannot be beggar, neither a brahmana

cannot be vaisya. This is real caste system. But you work as a cobbler,

and at the same time you claim to become a brahmana, this is not

allowed. Formerly the king used to see whether a brshmana is acting

like a brahmana. Otherwise he will be stopped. Then he will be

designated as he is working. This was the duty of the king to see

that everyone is employed according to his profession. It was the

duty of the king to see. Everyone must be employed. A brahmana must

be working like a brahmana. A kaatriya must be working like a ksatriya.

A vaisya must be working as a... Otherwise he cannot say.

 

Not like at the present moment, a brahmana is working, a servant, a

sudra, and he is brahmana. No. This is called asuric varnasrama.

Varasrrama. Varnasrama is very good institution."

(730717BG.LON)

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada clearly rejects the idea of switching among the

varnas and asramas in daiva vranasrama system:

 

"Not that as ksatriya he should become a brahmana beggar, no. A ksatriya

cannot be beggar, neither a brahmana cannot be vaisya. This is real caste

system."

 

 

 

The whole Bhagavat Gita illustrates the point of NOT switching among

varnas and asramas, there are so many refernces on that in connection

witha Arjuna. Especially in the verese 3.35 the performance of prescribed

duites other then one's own is condemned by Krsna as a dangerous path.

Srila Prabhupada starts the purport with: "One should therefore discharge

his prescribed duties in full Krsnna consciousness rather than those

prescribed for others."

 

 

-----------------------

 

I have added HH Bhaktividya Purna Swami as receiver to this text since

the claim here is that it is supposedly his explanation of daiva

varnasrama system as follows:

 

"In a daivi varnashrama system the person would say: "I am a servant of

Krishna. Today I may be a brahmana. Tomorrow I may be a shudra. The real

point is my service to Krishna."

 

Was the Vedic society opareting like that? Is this conception based on

Srila Prabhupada's explanation on daiva varnasrama system? What are the

references?

 

 

In the purport to the verse BG 3.35, Srila Prabhupada, *after* decribing

daiva varnasrama system in term of sva-dharme nidhanam sreyah para-dharmo

bhayavahah, however does discribe also the situation of transcendence:

 

"As such, for a ksatriya it is better to be vanquished following

the rules of violence than to imitate a brahmana who follows the

principles of nonviolence. Everyone has to cleanse his heart by a

gradual process, not abruptly. However, when one transcends the

modes of material nature and is fully situated in Krsnaa consciousness,

he can perform anything and everything under the direction of a bona

fide spiritual master. In that complete stage of Krsna consciousness,

the ksatriya may act as a brahmana, or a brahmana may act as a ksatriya.

In the transcendental stage, the distinctions of the material world do

not apply."

 

 

But, as far as we can understand, we do not speak here about *any*

varnasrama system anylonger. "In the transcendental stage, the

distinctions of the material world do not apply." It is the verse 3.35

indeed where Krsna speaks about the basics of daiva varnasrama dharma

system (and not the asuric one!). Krsna doesn't say, "Today you may

be a ksatriya or a brahmana, tomorrow a sudra, it's just fine", does He?

 

 

 

 

ys mnd