How to start varnasrama

[Guest guest]

> On 7.08.99 Janesvara das wrote:

>

> > On 07 Aug 1999, Mahanidhi das wrote:

> >

> > > Instead of appreciating the move in the right direction,

> > > you attack it as "not following". So quick on it.

> >

> >

> > It is NOT the right direction. YOU have got it backwards. Brahmacari is

> > ASRAMA, not varna. They want to make everyone a brahmacari first without

> > any regard to ones natural varna.

>

> I really have some problems in understanding you here Janesvara prabhu,

> maybe you can explain yourself a little better. Are you sugesting that one

> should not follow anymore the strict rules of brahmacarya (student life

> acording to SP) when one comes to the temple and wants to become Krsna

> consciouss. First of all who comes to Iskcon for other motivs than to

> become Krsna conscious and learn to act acordingly?

 

 

 

Is it only single young men who come to the temple? Are they brahmanas by

nature? Is there a program to counsel each new bhakta or bhaktin right from

the beginning as to what their varna is?

 

Student life is there for every young human according to their varna.

ISKCON's present system is strictly brahmana training (or so-called) for

every young single man. All of them are NOT brahmanas. This is not supported

by scripture.

 

 

"Sri Dhruva lived in Satya-yuga which had all facility for brahminical

culture and when Sri Narada, the greatest spiritual master in the universe,

preached brahminical culture to him he rejected it. "My dear lord, I am very

impudent for not accepting your instructions, but this is not my fault. It

is due to my being born in a ksatriya family." S.B. 4.8.36

 

"Dhruva Maharaja indirectly informed the great sage Narada that there are

four kinds of human spirit - the brahminical spirit, the ksatriya spirit,

the vaisya spirit and the sudra spirit. The spirit of one caste is not

applicable to the members of another. The philosophical spirit enunciated by

Narada Muni might have been suitable for a brahmana spirit, but it was not

suitable for a ksatriya. Dhruva frankly admitted that he was lacking in

brahminical humility and was therefore unable to accept the philosophy of

Narada Muni. The statements of Dhruva Maharaja indicate that unless a child

is trained according to his tendency, there is no possibility of his

developing his particular spirit. It was the duty of the spiritual master or

teacher to observe the psychological movement of a particular boy and thus

train him in a particular occupational duty. Dhruva Maharaja, having already

been trained in the ksatriya spirit, would not accept the brahminical

philosophy." Purport SB 4.8.36

 

 

ISKCON must setup varnasrama "colleges" in every center. When I say

"colleges", at this time, I mean counseling rooms where varnasrama is

discussed first thing immediately upon the bhakta's formally commiting an

interest in joining the movement. If they want to be a part of the program,

the program has to be methodically described according to the particular

varna of the prospective member. Questions can be asked of the bhakta as to

his or her nature, birth, former occupations, education, inclinations, etc.

 

Our varna training programs can be described and the bhakta will likely be

attracted to one of the four programs naturally. Their spiritual training is

molded around their nature. You will not get a sudra to attend class. There

is no need. All can chant the holy names; that is the best spiritual

activity in this age. A sudra may only chant one round or even one mantra

per day in the beginning. This is incredibly wonderful compared to his

previous non-spiritual life, don't you think. A grihamedhi couple can come

and join our community and gradually improve their human culture by engaging

in their natural varna, whatever it is and whatever it is called.

 

Many will come with an occupation already. This is fine. They should never

be told to give it up; only to chant Hare Krsna while performing their duty.

 

 

 

> > A sudra never takes brahmacari asrama, only grihasta asrama.

 

> OK than what do you suggest, that everyone who is coming to our Iskcon

> centers should marry imidiately if he is a sudra? Otherwise he canot be

> trained in the process of Krsna consciousness?

 

 

The program must be established so when new recruits come for joining they

know it is not a free hotel. There must be occupation for everyone according

to one of the four varnas. This requires full explanation of the varnas

BEFORE acceptance into the temple, asrama, farm, etc. Just like in the

beginning I was told I had to go to the "half-way" house up the street from

the temple until I proved myself worthy of living in the temple.

 

Same thing can be done according to varna. If someone wants to join to

become brahmana the full explanation of the brahminical training duties must

be explained BEFORE; study, study, study, tests, tests, tests. Chanting

rounds, praying, memorizing, reading, Deity worship rules, so many things to

become qualified brahmana. Not just free hotel, thread and now I am

brahmana. There must be qualification from training.

 

Same thing for all varnas.

 

 

 

> > First there should be entry into a varnasrama college to determine what

> > work each new or old bhakta is fitted for.

 

 

> Please, prabhu could you explain to me WHAT IS SUCH A VARNASRAMA COLLEGE

> in your opinion? I was asking you already can we at the present moment

> provide proper specific education, teoretical and practical knowledge

> regarding the diferent jobs one can work to earn ones livelihood as a

> grihasta. There are hundreds of them wich can be clasified acording to the

> four varnas. Do you want that our ISKCON centers should replace the

> different schools of knowledge in this regard or what is your

> understanding about this?

 

 

Ultimately yes, we should be able to provide all the necessary education for

any varna training. Remember, though, things are a bit simpler in Vedic

communities.

 

If someone comes with varna training already they can continue and add

chanting the holy names to their program. This will be perfect.