Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > Tomar, my man-eating viscous 25lb Welsh Terrier ninja attack dog is > training herself to become a ksatriya. Look out Janesh, you've been > warned! Sticky (as in viscous) or vicious? Either way she sounds scary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 "COM: Harsi (das) HKS (Timisoara - RO)" wrote: > [Text 2540848 from COM] > > Madhava Gosh das wrote on 9.8.99: > > > > I wonder why it is that so few other devotees join in on this > > > conference? > > > Because the atmosphere is so inhibiting to the creative intellectual > > process. Any simple idea set forth is almost guarantueed to draw withering > > criticism from someone, so you can't really have a productive, evolving > > conversation. Any simple statement you make you have to be ready to > > immediately vigourously defend. Not a very encouraging atmosphere. > > Why not seeing this different opinions, comments, ideas, questions, etc. > in a positiv way, as a mean to broaden our understanding and knowledge about > our common cause Yes, it is not the difference of opinion , or the right to express them that is the problem , the problem is the WAY in which it is done, which the verbal combatants taking very strong positions that there is only one right way, and then using ad hominem attacks on anyone disagreeing. As you quoted > > > Provocation and misunderstanding may remain between one man and another. But > our staunch faith in Krishna Consciousness may not allow any material > disruption. Please therefore try to be sympathetic with any person even if > they differ. The only qualification we have to scrutinize is if one is > acting in Krishna Consciousness as far as one is able to do it. Letter to: > Brahmananda, 18 November, 1967 > > Disagreements between devotees are best kept on the spiritual platform, and > not allowed to degrade into quarrel. > Let me emphasis the "sympathetic". That seems to be lacking. > > The members of the United Nations assemble together, but their hearts are > not clean. They meet together with unclean hearts. Therefore there is no > solution, whereas those who are meeting on the platform of Krsna > consciousness, they are meeting with cleansed hearts. That is the > difference. Ceto-darpana-marjanam. Therefore that unity is very solid and > sound. And with unclean hearts, if we meet, officially, there is no > possibility of unity. 721108ND.VRN > > Of course, not all disagreements between devotees are purely spiritual. > When devotees quarrel publicly, unnecessarily, repeatedly and harshly, > maintain bad feelings, foment politics, or unnecessarily create and > exacerbate friction between themselves, then it is to be understood that > Kali has entered. Disputes born of the modes of passion and ignorance are > characterized by false pride, ambition, and ultimately frustration. They > are caused by unfulfilled lust, envy, overly-critical attitudes, and a > rebellious spirit. Discord between devotees based on these unsaintly > qualities is most undesirable and is certainly not spiritual. > > Even a disagreement about how to serve Krsna or about philosophical issues > can become mundane if it becomes a prestige issue, that is if either party > loses the transcendental vision, and becomes envious of the other party and > attached to "winning" at any cost. Srila Prabhupada told the story of the > sons who quarreled over how to massage their father. Losing their sense > along with their temper, they started to beat each other and their father > also! > > Altercation between devotees leaves a "scar on the heart," and disturbs our > sadhana and our whole consciousness (unless we are hardhearted). Such > fighting also saps the whole spirit and preaching efforts of the movement. > > Now all my disciples must work combinedly and with cooperation to spread > this Sankirtana Movement. If you cannot work together then my work is > stopped up. Letter to: Upendra, 6 August, 1970 > > Sometimes quarrels are due to misunderstandings. They can come from > misjudging others' actions or intentions, incorrectly hearing what others > have said, or by receiving wrong information about others. It is prudent, > therefore, if we feel we have been slighted, not to jump too quickly to > conclusions about other people's motives. > > We should also keep in mind that if someone acts or speaks harshly towards > us, it may not be with ill intentions. He may be under strain. Even the > most pious king Yudhisthira, having been humiliated by Karna after sixteen > days of terrible battle, rebuked Arjuna with soul cutting insults. Arjuna > then prepared to kill Yudhisthira, but Krsna appeased them both and brought > out their natural love for each other. > > If not rectified, misunderstandings can lead to serious rifts that can > continue over many years and spoil our movement. > > If we fight amongst ourselves, even if we belong to the family of Krsna, we > are ruined. 740603SB.GEN > > Basically, devotees are friends of each other, not enemies. They should be > able to make up their differences, tolerating the wrongs they may have done > to each other, as a father tolerates the impudence of his son, a friend > tolerates the impertinence of a friend, or a wife tolerates the familiarity > of her partner. (c.f. Bg 11.44) > > Even though people sometimes become angry and malicious toward one another, > because of their being Kåñëa conscious such rivalry, competition and envy > can be adjusted without difficulty. SB 4.20.18 purport > > Therefore if a dispute does take place, it should be resolved, not allowed > to simmer for years. When devotees have a serious disagreement, it is best > they discuss it in the presence of a neutral party whom they both respect. > Sanatana Goswami used to mediate disputes between the Brijbasis, who would > accept his judgment as final." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > > Since I am convinced this criticism of having the obstacle in the > progress of the conference you are directing towards me and not > towards Janesvara, Madhava Gosh, Harsi, Samba (that means, I am > singled out), let us do an experiment: I'll pull out for a month, > and we see how much the progress in implementing VAD via this forum > will be boosted up. > > - mnd Well , if the shoe fits wear it, but I personally was making a generic comment about the mood in general, not directing it solely at you. How about this for an experiment - for a month, only respond psoitively to things you agree with instead of negatively to things you disagree with. Think of it as an austerity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > > > Everyone needs to find a way to serve Krsna according to his natural > inclinations. None-the-less, without promoting a healthy brahminical > sub-culture, the larger VAD society will suffer immeasurably. Yes, if the brahmans are fed by the fruits of karmi culture, we could expect that VAD would suffer. And if fed by fruits of a devotee culture, it would flourish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 "COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius)" wrote: > [Text 2543446 from COM] > > > Tomar, my man-eating viscous 25lb Welsh Terrier ninja attack dog is > > training herself to become a ksatriya. Look out Janesh, you've been > > warned! > > Sticky (as in viscous) or vicious? Either way she sounds scary! Viscuos attack dog? I'm ROFLMAO. Sticks to you and licks you to death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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