RE: Varnashrama college

August 23, 1999

Hare Krishna,

You're right that we need to define what is Varnashram College.

Personally, I don't have much of an idea of what a VC program would be in

one of our urban temples. However, your message raises some issues about

varnashram education and structure. Here are a few thoughts:

-- Ksyatrias are not the only managers. Vaishyas manage their farms and

businesses. Brahmans also manage their temples, schools and ashramas. [Nanda

Maharaja was called the king of Vrindaban. He was the progeny of a

brahman/ksyatria union.]

-- Vaishyas engaged in agriculture and cow protection do not necessarily

plow the fields and herd the cows themselves. They can "employ" others to do

this work, while they manage their farms, arrange distribution and market

their products.

The same is true for vaishyas engaged in doing other businesses. You can

see this in practice in Loi Bazaar. Just ask one of the bigger murti-walas

to see how the brass deities are made. They have workshops which employ a

number of skilled artisans to do the casting and polishing.

-- Teachers are supposed to be brahmanas. Dronacharya was a brahmana who

taught the Pandavas to act as Ksyatrias. If I understand correctly, there is

no Sanskrit word for "teacher". Guru means teacher. Teacher means guru.

-- As for classroom-style teaching, brahmans and ksyatriyas learn well by

hearing. Vaishyas and sudras learn best by experience. Krishna and Balarama,

as members of a vaishya community, would not normally have gone away to

gurukula. However, they went to the ashrama of Sandipani Muni at the request

of their father, Vasudeva.

-- Apprenticeship in business and skilled labor has historically been the

preferred method of instruction in almost every major culture around the

world.

Your servant,

Sri Rama das

[srirama (AT) reachme (DOT) net], or

[srirama (AT) bbt (DOT) se]

Samba.SDG (AT) bbt (DOT) se [samba.SDG (AT) bbt (DOT) se]

Sunday, August 22, 1999 12:31 AM

WWW: Rohita (Dasa) ACBSP (New Talavan MS - USA); COM: Practical

Varnasrama

"Varnasrama college"

[Text 2573704 from COM]

> It seems to me that, once again, one got to determine first the

> key terms being used. What "varnasrama college" is. What kind of

> place it is. Who gets there exactly what kind of education/training. What

> is the idea. Does everybody mean the same thing when speaking or reading

> "varnasrama college".

>

> Often a discussion being in progress to only discover on the

> end that everybody meant something all different. Sometimes this

> can be a case even with most commonly used terms that "varnasrama

> college", compared to, might sound somewhat esoterically.

Yes. I think it has come out a little more in the last few texts,

The way I see it a varnasrama college (Srila Prabhupadas term) Means a place

where people can learn practical 'life skills' according to their

propensities.

Actualy personaly I feel that this idea of 'krsnizing' western educational

methods is not at all right, at least generaly (by that I mean continuing an

exclusive classroom method, but just adding Krsna to the topics).

As Prabhupada pointed out in the post of Rohita prabhu. Most training is

just practical hands on experience.

We need to develop training curriculi that train poeple up in the full

range of human activity, required for a balanced community that has a goal

of 'simple living and high thinking'.

I think Srila Prabhupada left it to us to 'fill in the blanks' when it comes

to exactly how we arrange it.

Rather than having a neat building, behind a neat fence, called a

'varnasrama college' Actualy the entire boundary of our community is the

college (and even beyond), and the lessons are given by each end every

member of the community (as required and approved) in the form of practical

hands on work (hands on the work, not the kids).

Of course this depends on the varnic instruction to be imbibed.

Maybe I can give a sample idea of the way I see it.

Aspiring ksatrias need to understand administration, so they may apprentice

in the managers office. They need 'people skills' the art of negotiation, of

assuaging agitated people, a sense of justice. So apprenticeship in our

security and investigation departments, or at least instruction from well

researched brahmins. They may patrol the bounds of the community, check

fences for infiltration, look for weak spots. They may go into the forest,

to confront wild animals, especialy those that may be attacking the

community, that wont be assuaged by exhaustive attempts to placate them by

feeding etc. They need to know when to punish, and when to forgive.

The vaisyas students learn the ways of the land alongside the vaisyas. Take

care of cows (on a family basis) produce implements by engaging sudras in

various labour capacities, and bringing these to market. Producing extensive

grains, and procuring more difficult or rarer items needed in the community.

The higher casts certainly need the advice and learning of experts and this

is where the brahmins come in. So some of the time, he youngsters spend with

the brahmins, who give them expert knowledge in people skills. These may be

in a more classic 'classroom environment', as in an asrama. Probably the

students would have a balanced time, 'on the job' so as to speak, which is

monitored by the brahmin, and the training is tailored to the particular

advancement of the student.

Even in each varna their are higher and lower degrees. Very few will have

the evolved intelligence to actualy qualify as a ruler.

At what ages one starts the training I'm not sure. Srila Prabhupada mentions

that gurukula comes first, but I guess that is for the higher castes, maybe

the sudras just stay home learn the basic thre r's, (maybe not even that)

and work with the family. Of course if a sudra is born in a brahmin family,

then maybe he has to apprentice somewhere else. These sort of niggling

little things have to be resolved. Vidura was a sudra, but lived in the

court, of course he was a very learned devotee.

Maybe we can continue this thread with others concepts of the 'varnasrama

college'?

Maybe we could also start threads which get into describing the duties of

each varna? A thread for each? Although that may be beyond our capacity

right now. I have noticed that the Ksatria conference is completely devoid

of texts, maybe we can use it add add three more conferences?. I would

really like to get Gopinatha Acarya, Suresvara, or Hare Krsna Dasi prabhus

into this.

Thanks Mahanidhi prabhu, for bringing this up.

YS

August 23, 1999