Guest guest Posted October 3, 1999 Report Share Posted October 3, 1999 Srila Prabhu wrote: >But what happened to them? Even of those who are still left in the movement, >I can respectfully say that they do not possess the charisma they displayed >previously during Prabhupada's association. Why? Dear Srila, You've certainly provided some food for thought. However, your text also raises several questions: 1) Is a comment respectful, just because its author says so? Taken to its logical conclusion, that would mean that we could even insult each other, "respectfully." 2) Please operationally define "possessing charisma", so that we can understand that the quote above is not simply your opinion. 3) How is the possession of charisma at all relevant to whether or not someone falls, or to a person's level of advancement? (which is after all the header of this thread). Just wondering (respectfully, of course). Ys, Madhusudani dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 1999 Report Share Posted October 4, 1999 Dear Prabhus, I was feeling uneasy after dispatching the "commentary" in my previous posting. But since I was able to express in words for the first time feelings that had been mulling around in my mind for years together, I will not deny them either. I must confess that whatever I wrote were my own subjective observations. If I have offended anyone in the process, I am sorry for that. In order for discussions to progress, we have to be frank with one other. Sometimes that means making mistakes and being prepared to accept correction. On the other side, it means giving someone the benefit of a doubt, encouraging them to speak their piece and then allowing them the right to clarify their position. In this regard, I am thankful for the input I have received from several devotees (Ajamila Prabhu, Kunti dd and Sraddha dd) who took the time to read my post and reply. They have forced me to reexamine my conclusions and adjust my thoughts, if for no other reason, then so people don't misread me and I don't offend anyone unnecessarily. Until our power of introspection is sufficiently developed, we need feedback from other devotees to internalize the capacity to be more self-critical. Even from a material point of view, we cannot act as conscientious and moral beings without learning from others. The purpose of all these conferences and discussions is to maintain and refine our Krsna consciousness. I wrote: > > But what happened to them? Even of those who are still left in the >movement, I can respectfully say that they do not possess the charisma they >displayed previously during Prabhupada's association. Why? > > I believe Prabhupada offers the explanation above. 1) First of all, I regret juxtaposing my comment immediately after the excerpt from Prabhupada in NOD. I should have let his words sink in, however they might, then comment on them in a separate post. 2) Secondly, I now see in retrospect how my comment could have been misread and how it indeed caused considerable sour notes. It was not very flattering, to say the least. Therefore I would like to reword it to a more objecitve statement: "But what happened to them? Those who fell down from their positions or left their services within ISKCON obviously lost the charisma (the power to to inspire) and the inspiration to serve as they once had previously during Prabhupada's association. Why? The answer, I believe is given by Srila Prabhupada in the passage cited above." There. I have edited what would seem objectionable (though I continue to maintain the suspicion that it could be true for many of those still *in* ISKCON) and I have generously extended the subject pool to include myself. Maybe I should rename this thread, "Why have *I* become fallen"? What do think now, comrades? Again please excuse me for my lack of faith in my senior godbrothers and expressing myself too candidly. We can't always belch out whatever is in our mind -- even if there is some truth to it. Otherwise, our so-called truth-telling could be counter-productive. Or worse, we may end up saying something foolish. The "truth," however, often eludes a common consensus and a complete comprehension. It is seen by those who have the eyes to see it. Since I can't boast about my spectacular vision, I will simply suggest that Prabhupada's words in NOD (pp. 131-132) may be eye-opening. Take them as you will. Your fallen servant, Srila dasa ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 1999 Report Share Posted October 4, 1999 Dear Prabhus, I was feeling uneasy after dispatching the "commentary" in my previous posting. But since I was able to express in words for the first time feelings that had been mulling around in my mind for years together, I will not deny them either. I must confess that whatever I wrote were my own subjective observations. If I have offended anyone in the process, I am sorry for that. In order for discussions to progress, we have to be frank with one other. Sometimes that means making mistakes and being prepared to accept correction. On the other side, it means giving someone the benefit of a doubt, encouraging them to speak their piece and then allowing them the right to clarify their position. In this regard, I am thankful for the input I have received from several devotees (Ajamila Prabhu, Kunti dd and Sraddha dd) who took the time to read my post and reply. They have forced me to reexamine my conclusions and adjust my thoughts, if for no other reason, then so people don't misread me and I don't offend anyone unnecessarily. Until our power of introspection is sufficiently developed, we need feedback from other devotees to internalize the capacity to be more self-critical. Even from a material point of view, we cannot act as conscientious and moral beings without learning from others. The purpose of all these conferences and discussions is to maintain and refine our Krsna consciousness. I wrote: > > But what happened to them? Even of those who are still left in the >movement, I can respectfully say that they do not possess the charisma they >displayed previously during Prabhupada's association. Why? > > I believe Prabhupada offers the explanation above. 1) First of all, I regret juxtaposing my comment immediately after the excerpt from Prabhupada in NOD. I should have let his words sink in, however they might, then comment on them in a separate post. 2) Secondly, I now see in retrospect how my comment could have been misread and how it indeed caused considerable sour notes. It was not very flattering, to say the least. Therefore I would like to reword it to a more objecitve statement: "But what happened to them? Those who fell down from their positions or left their services within ISKCON obviously lost the charisma (the power to to inspire) and the inspiration to serve as they once had previously during Prabhupada's association. Why? The answer, I believe is given by Srila Prabhupada in the passage cited above." There. I have edited what would seem objectionable (though I continue to maintain the suspicion that it could be true for many of those still *in* ISKCON) and I have generously extended the subject pool to include myself. Maybe I should rename this thread, "Why have *I* become fallen"? What do think now, comrades? Again please excuse me for my lack of faith in my senior godbrothers and expressing myself too candidly. We can't always belch out whatever is in our mind -- even if there is some truth to it. Otherwise, our so-called truth-telling could be counter-productive. Or worse, we may end up saying something foolish. The "truth," however, often eludes a common consensus and a complete comprehension. It is seen by those who have the eyes to see it. Since I can't boast about my spectacular vision, I will simply suggest that Prabhupada's words in NOD (pp. 131-132) may be eye-opening. Take them as you will. Your fallen servant, Srila dasa ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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