gurukulas - slaughter houses

[Guest guest]

> >

 

> When my oldest daughter was beaten by her ashram teacher, my wife

> promptly went and beat up the ashram teacher.

 

I am sure that you learn to be very respectful to her.

Ys

[Guest guest]

> >

 

> When my oldest daughter was beaten by her ashram teacher, my wife

> promptly went and beat up the ashram teacher.

 

I am sure that you learn to be very respectful to her.

Ys

[Guest guest]

> Just for the fact, people outside of ISKCON consider sexual child abuse

> the most disgusting crime of all crimes, and it is not so common as you

> say it is (may be only in ISKCON), to steal the innocence from the

> child.

 

In many jails through out the world, when a convicted child abuser

enters one, other convicted hardened cut-throat etc criminals are

unwilling to tolerate the child abuser and literally bash him up.

 

Even a murderer of an adult is unable to tolerate a child-abuser.

 

The statement by Jahnu Prabhu that "They don't even make it to

the news anymore. It is so common." is false. Almost every day

there is news about child-abuse in the newspapers.

 

 

 

 

ys,

ananta das.

[Guest guest]

> Just for the fact, people outside of ISKCON consider sexual child abuse

> the most disgusting crime of all crimes, and it is not so common as you

> say it is (may be only in ISKCON), to steal the innocence from the

> child.

 

In many jails through out the world, when a convicted child abuser

enters one, other convicted hardened cut-throat etc criminals are

unwilling to tolerate the child abuser and literally bash him up.

 

Even a murderer of an adult is unable to tolerate a child-abuser.

 

The statement by Jahnu Prabhu that "They don't even make it to

the news anymore. It is so common." is false. Almost every day

there is news about child-abuse in the newspapers.

 

 

 

 

ys,

ananta das.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > > Better immature and open to learn than fanatic, dear friend.

> >

> > Better to be fanatically dedicated to Srila Prabhupada's mission.

>

According to Srila Prabhupada's teachings. one should not be a

fanatic

 

He says in BG Lecture Dec 20th 1968 : " And if you simply stick to

your own religious ritualistic principles, don’t try to understand the

philosophy of everything, then you become a fanatic. So we should

not become religious fanatics, nor dry mental speculators."

 

Hence to say that one can be fanatically dedicated to Srila

Prabhupada's mission implies that one has not assimilated his

teachings what to speak of his mission.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > > Better immature and open to learn than fanatic, dear friend.

> >

> > Better to be fanatically dedicated to Srila Prabhupada's mission.

>

According to Srila Prabhupada's teachings. one should not be a

fanatic

 

He says in BG Lecture Dec 20th 1968 : " And if you simply stick to

your own religious ritualistic principles, don’t try to understand the

philosophy of everything, then you become a fanatic. So we should

not become religious fanatics, nor dry mental speculators."

 

Hence to say that one can be fanatically dedicated to Srila

Prabhupada's mission implies that one has not assimilated his

teachings what to speak of his mission.

[Guest guest]

>Just for the fact, people outside of ISKCON consider sexual child abuse the

>most disgusting crime of all crimes, and it is not so common as you say it

>is (may be only in ISKCON)

 

I don't think that your statement is supported by facts.

 

Just a quote from one of the Internet sites on child abuse:

 

>Child Advocates commonly claim that one in four women and one in seven boys

>are sexually molested before their

eighteenth birthday. ...

But meaningful data are not easy to come by. In her excellent book,

"Treating Child Sex Offenders and Victims," (Sage

Publications, 1988) Anna Salter summarized 14 American and Canadian studies.

Incidence rates ranged from 11% to

38% for females. and 3%-11% for males. Wyatt's 1985 study of 248 Los Angeles

women yielded a sexual abuse figure

of 62%, a figure so apparently outrageous that Salter chose not to include

it.

 

 

 

 

 

>"COM: Janaka (das) HKS (Osijek - HR)" <Janaka.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

>Janaka.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Granddisciples (AT) bbt (DOT) se,

>Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Prabhupada.Said (AT) bbt (DOT) se

>"COM: (Bhakta) Helmut Abele BKG (D)" <Helmut.Abele.BKG (AT) bbt (DOT) se>,

>"COM: Granddisciples (of Srila Prabhupada)" <Granddisciples (AT) bbt (DOT) se>,

>"COM: Prabhupada Said" <Prabhupada.Said (AT) bbt (DOT) se>, "COM: Varnasrama

>development" <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

>Re: gurukulas - slaughter houses

>Fri, 22 Oct 99 11:06 +0200

>

>[Text 2719542 from COM]

>

> > In the Kali-yuga society things are degrading

> > fast and all kinds of horrible abuse of children and women are

> > every day facts of life. They don't even make it to the news

> > anymore. It is so common. How can it surprise anyone that these

> > things are happening in ISKCON, too?

>

> >Your servant

> >Jahnu das

>

>How can you say such a thing.May be the abuse of children and women a very

>common things to you, but not to me and many other devotees in ISKCON.It is

>obvious that with this statement you are trying to minimize the crime

>committed, and are trying to protect the guilty partys.

>

>Over 1.000 children vere abused for a period of 25 years in ISKCON.One

>whole

>generation of devotees practically destroyed.This is the biggest child

>abuse in the modern history of man kind and you say "dont be surprised,

>this

>is so common".

>

>Just for the fact, people outside of ISKCON consider sexual child abuse the

>most disgusting crime of all crimes, and it is not so common as you say it

>is (may be only in ISKCON), to steal the innocence from the child.Most

>lawyers refuse to protect in court such disgusting creature (pedophil),

>because it is not such a common thing that happens in the world today.

>

>Your servant

>Janaka das

 

____

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

>Just for the fact, people outside of ISKCON consider sexual child abuse the

>most disgusting crime of all crimes, and it is not so common as you say it

>is (may be only in ISKCON)

 

I don't think that your statement is supported by facts.

 

Just a quote from one of the Internet sites on child abuse:

 

>Child Advocates commonly claim that one in four women and one in seven boys

>are sexually molested before their

eighteenth birthday. ...

But meaningful data are not easy to come by. In her excellent book,

"Treating Child Sex Offenders and Victims," (Sage

Publications, 1988) Anna Salter summarized 14 American and Canadian studies.

Incidence rates ranged from 11% to

38% for females. and 3%-11% for males. Wyatt's 1985 study of 248 Los Angeles

women yielded a sexual abuse figure

of 62%, a figure so apparently outrageous that Salter chose not to include

it.

 

 

 

 

 

>"COM: Janaka (das) HKS (Osijek - HR)" <Janaka.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

>Janaka.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Granddisciples (AT) bbt (DOT) se,

>Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se, Prabhupada.Said (AT) bbt (DOT) se

>"COM: (Bhakta) Helmut Abele BKG (D)" <Helmut.Abele.BKG (AT) bbt (DOT) se>,

>"COM: Granddisciples (of Srila Prabhupada)" <Granddisciples (AT) bbt (DOT) se>,

>"COM: Prabhupada Said" <Prabhupada.Said (AT) bbt (DOT) se>, "COM: Varnasrama

>development" <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>

>Re: gurukulas - slaughter houses

>Fri, 22 Oct 99 11:06 +0200

>

>[Text 2719542 from COM]

>

> > In the Kali-yuga society things are degrading

> > fast and all kinds of horrible abuse of children and women are

> > every day facts of life. They don't even make it to the news

> > anymore. It is so common. How can it surprise anyone that these

> > things are happening in ISKCON, too?

>

> >Your servant

> >Jahnu das

>

>How can you say such a thing.May be the abuse of children and women a very

>common things to you, but not to me and many other devotees in ISKCON.It is

>obvious that with this statement you are trying to minimize the crime

>committed, and are trying to protect the guilty partys.

>

>Over 1.000 children vere abused for a period of 25 years in ISKCON.One

>whole

>generation of devotees practically destroyed.This is the biggest child

>abuse in the modern history of man kind and you say "dont be surprised,

>this

>is so common".

>

>Just for the fact, people outside of ISKCON consider sexual child abuse the

>most disgusting crime of all crimes, and it is not so common as you say it

>is (may be only in ISKCON), to steal the innocence from the child.Most

>lawyers refuse to protect in court such disgusting creature (pedophil),

>because it is not such a common thing that happens in the world today.

>

>Your servant

>Janaka das

 

____

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

>>In ISKCON, at least the parents had some option to pull their kids out.

>>When my oldest daughter was beaten by her ashram teacher, my wife

>>promptly went and beat up the ashram teacher.

 

Please offer my obeisances unto her.

[Guest guest]

>>In ISKCON, at least the parents had some option to pull their kids out.

>>When my oldest daughter was beaten by her ashram teacher, my wife

>>promptly went and beat up the ashram teacher.

 

Please offer my obeisances unto her.

[Guest guest]

> When my oldest daughter was beaten by her ashram teacher, my wife

> promptly went and beat up the ashram teacher.

 

Really!

 

What happened then?

 

PS: I read the "Little Tree". It was a really good book about a little

Indian boy going through exactly those events you´ve described.

[Guest guest]

> When my oldest daughter was beaten by her ashram teacher, my wife

> promptly went and beat up the ashram teacher.

 

Really!

 

What happened then?

 

PS: I read the "Little Tree". It was a really good book about a little

Indian boy going through exactly those events you´ve described.

[Guest guest]

"COM: Trayimaya (das) HKS (Aarhus - DK)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2724376 from COM]

>

> > When my oldest daughter was beaten by her ashram teacher, my wife

> > promptly went and beat up the ashram teacher.

>

> Really!

>

> What happened then?

>

> PS: I read the "Little Tree". It was a really good book about a little

> Indian boy going through exactly those events you´ve described.

 

I am a little hazy on the details, but I know eventually she got the

teacher removed.

 

Yes, the Little Tree experience was standard operating procedure for

reservation children until the middle of this century. Systematic

cultural genocide. As a matter of fact, it was illegal in the US for

Natives to practice thier religious rituals by federal law until the

Religious Freedom Act of 1976 (1979 ?)

[Guest guest]

"COM: Trayimaya (das) HKS (Aarhus - DK)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2724376 from COM]

>

> > When my oldest daughter was beaten by her ashram teacher, my wife

> > promptly went and beat up the ashram teacher.

>

> Really!

>

> What happened then?

>

> PS: I read the "Little Tree". It was a really good book about a little

> Indian boy going through exactly those events you´ve described.

 

I am a little hazy on the details, but I know eventually she got the

teacher removed.

 

Yes, the Little Tree experience was standard operating procedure for

reservation children until the middle of this century. Systematic

cultural genocide. As a matter of fact, it was illegal in the US for

Natives to practice thier religious rituals by federal law until the

Religious Freedom Act of 1976 (1979 ?)

[Guest guest]

> How can you say such a thing.May be the abuse of children and

> women a very common things to you, but not to me and many other

> devotees in ISKCON.It is obvious that with this statement you

> are trying to minimize the crime committed, and are trying to

> protect the guilty partys.

 

If you think that my statement, which you for some reason quoted

completely out of context, obviously shows that I am trying to

minimize the crimes committed and protect the guilty parties, I

think you must be a very unreflective person, and therefore I see

no reason to defend myself against your mindless, emotional

accusations.

[Guest guest]

> How can you say such a thing.May be the abuse of children and

> women a very common things to you, but not to me and many other

> devotees in ISKCON.It is obvious that with this statement you

> are trying to minimize the crime committed, and are trying to

> protect the guilty partys.

 

If you think that my statement, which you for some reason quoted

completely out of context, obviously shows that I am trying to

minimize the crimes committed and protect the guilty parties, I

think you must be a very unreflective person, and therefore I see

no reason to defend myself against your mindless, emotional

accusations.

[Guest guest]

Trayimaya wrote:

 

> I agree with Janaka prabhu. This child-abuse is the biggest

> stain on the white cloth of ISKCON. It is THE mother of all our

> problems.

 

Wrong! THE mother of all our problems is that we didn't follow

the instructions Srila Prabhupada gave us. The child-abuse is

merely an effect of that.

[Guest guest]

Trayimaya wrote:

 

> I agree with Janaka prabhu. This child-abuse is the biggest

> stain on the white cloth of ISKCON. It is THE mother of all our

> problems.

 

Wrong! THE mother of all our problems is that we didn't follow

the instructions Srila Prabhupada gave us. The child-abuse is

merely an effect of that.

[Guest guest]

>

> > I agree with Janaka prabhu. This child-abuse is the biggest

> > stain on the white cloth of ISKCON. It is THE mother of all our

> > problems.

>

> Wrong! THE mother of all our problems is that we didn't follow

> the instructions Srila Prabhupada gave us. The child-abuse is

> merely an effect of that.

 

You mean, the instructions like "A Vaisnava should not rape

children"?

 

Whatewer, it is going down into history of Prabhupada's ISCKON,

never to be forgotten. And it shouldn't be.

 

And who "we" exactly you refer to, and what "instructions" that

"we" didn't follow you exactly have on your mind, seams not to be

of any relevance to the world. Nor it should be. Even you yourself

didn't bother to mention it here, being an over chewed "bubble-gummy"

slogan with no flavor in it.

 

 

 

- mnd

[Guest guest]

>

> > I agree with Janaka prabhu. This child-abuse is the biggest

> > stain on the white cloth of ISKCON. It is THE mother of all our

> > problems.

>

> Wrong! THE mother of all our problems is that we didn't follow

> the instructions Srila Prabhupada gave us. The child-abuse is

> merely an effect of that.

 

You mean, the instructions like "A Vaisnava should not rape

children"?

 

Whatewer, it is going down into history of Prabhupada's ISCKON,

never to be forgotten. And it shouldn't be.

 

And who "we" exactly you refer to, and what "instructions" that

"we" didn't follow you exactly have on your mind, seams not to be

of any relevance to the world. Nor it should be. Even you yourself

didn't bother to mention it here, being an over chewed "bubble-gummy"

slogan with no flavor in it.

 

 

 

- mnd

[Guest guest]

"COM: Jahnu (das) (Almviks Gard - S)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2731676 from COM]

>

> Trayimaya wrote:

>

> > I agree with Janaka prabhu. This child-abuse is the biggest

> > stain on the white cloth of ISKCON. It is THE mother of all our

> > problems.

>

> Wrong! THE mother of all our problems is that we didn't follow

> the instructions Srila Prabhupada gave us. The child-abuse is

> merely an effect of that.

 

According to scriptures also, there are seven mothers: (1) the real

mother, (2) the wife of the spiritual master, (3) the wife of a

brahmana, (4) the wife of the king, (5) the cow, (6) the nurse, and (7)

the earth. All of them are mothers.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 1.11.28

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 8: Chapter Twenty-four, Text 5 :PURPORT

 

Without protection of cows, brahminical culture cannot be maintained;

and without brahminical culture, the aim of life cannot be fulfilled.

 

Comment:

 

The cow is our mother.

 

Cow protection is minimized or ignored by most of the institution and

most individual devotees.

 

Gurukula abuse is a failure of maintaining brahminical standards, as

will happen if cow protection is not there.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave clear instructions of the importance of cow

protection.

 

Lack of following Srila Prabhupada's instructions on cow protection is

the mother of all our problems.

 

Further comment:

 

The cow is defenseless and voiceless. If we are callous to the least of

our dependents, is it any wonder we are callous to others?

 

Krsna is a cowherd boy. We say we are servants of Krsna, but we ignore

the cows, both collectively, and individually .

[Guest guest]

"COM: Jahnu (das) (Almviks Gard - S)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2731676 from COM]

>

> Trayimaya wrote:

>

> > I agree with Janaka prabhu. This child-abuse is the biggest

> > stain on the white cloth of ISKCON. It is THE mother of all our

> > problems.

>

> Wrong! THE mother of all our problems is that we didn't follow

> the instructions Srila Prabhupada gave us. The child-abuse is

> merely an effect of that.

 

According to scriptures also, there are seven mothers: (1) the real

mother, (2) the wife of the spiritual master, (3) the wife of a

brahmana, (4) the wife of the king, (5) the cow, (6) the nurse, and (7)

the earth. All of them are mothers.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => SB 1.11.28

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 8: Chapter Twenty-four, Text 5 :PURPORT

 

Without protection of cows, brahminical culture cannot be maintained;

and without brahminical culture, the aim of life cannot be fulfilled.

 

Comment:

 

The cow is our mother.

 

Cow protection is minimized or ignored by most of the institution and

most individual devotees.

 

Gurukula abuse is a failure of maintaining brahminical standards, as

will happen if cow protection is not there.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave clear instructions of the importance of cow

protection.

 

Lack of following Srila Prabhupada's instructions on cow protection is

the mother of all our problems.

 

Further comment:

 

The cow is defenseless and voiceless. If we are callous to the least of

our dependents, is it any wonder we are callous to others?

 

Krsna is a cowherd boy. We say we are servants of Krsna, but we ignore

the cows, both collectively, and individually .

[Guest guest]

> Trayimaya wrote:

>

> > I agree with Janaka prabhu. This child-abuse is the biggest

> > stain on the white cloth of ISKCON. It is THE mother of all our

> > problems.

 

Jahnu Prabu wrote:

 

> Wrong! THE mother of all our problems is that we didn't follow

> the instructions Srila Prabhupada gave us. The child-abuse is

> merely an effect of that.

 

Please Prabhu, give the proper chance to all other sincere devotees to

stress their opinion freely concerning this case.

 

Y.s. Janaka das

[Guest guest]

> > How can you say such a thing.May be the abuse of children and

> > women a very common things to you, but not to me and many other devotees

> > in ISKCON.It is obvious that with this statement you are trying to

> > minimize the crime committed, and are trying to

> > protect the guilty partys.

 

Jahnu Prabhu wrote:

 

> If you think that my statement, which you for some reason quoted

> completely out of context, obviously shows that I am trying to

> minimize the crimes committed and protect the guilty parties, I

> think you must be a very unreflective person, and therefore I see no

> reason to defend myself against your mindless, emotional accusations.

 

Didnt you say, that the main blame for letting it all happen, should be put

on the childrens parents, and not on the leaders of ISKCON.This statement of

yours below, is the proof for what I said about you trying to protect the

guilty partys, by throwing the blame on the parents.

 

Text COM : 2174064

Date : 20. Mar. 99.

Subject : sampling

 

Jahnu Prabhu wrote:

 

> Unlike someone else I don't think it is ISKCON who abused these kids.I >

think the abuse was done by sick individuals posing as devotees within >

ISKCON, and the main blame for letting it happen should according to my >

opinion, be put on the parents and not the leaders of ISKCON - except of

> course the ones that actively participated in the abuse.What kind of >

parents would not notice their kids being abused like that.How come no one >

ever point their finger at them?

 

end of letter.

 

Didnt you publicly call the victims parents " ZOMBIES " and " STUPID ", for

alloweing everything that has happened to their children.The proof is this

letter below:

 

Text COM : 2174609

Date : 20. Mar. 99.

Subject : Abused children - blame parents?!

 

Trayimaya Prabhu wrote:

 

>> The parents was preached to by THE LEADERS to put their precious children

>> in gurukula.If you did not you were in maya and a bad devotee.Apart from

>> that there was no alternatives.Public school was condemnd.Homeschooling

>> barely tolerated.

 

Janhu Prabhu wrote:

 

> That may be true, but what kind of zombie parents wouldnt notice that

> their kids were being abused.

 

T.P. wrote:

 

>>I'm amazed you can hold such an opinion, that the main blame is on the

>>parents.Amazed.Please explain yourself.

 

J.P. wrote:

 

> I just did.What kind of parents will not notice that their kids are being

> abused.If the parents subjected themselves to manipulation and >

peer-pressure, do you suggest that they were blameless? I suggest they >

must have been stupid.That you are stupid dosn't mean you are free from

> blame.The main responsibility for the children always lies with the >

parents.I am amazed that you dont know that.Of course ISKCON as an >

institution also have responsibility but the main responsibility for the

> children clearly lies with the parents.

 

end of letter.

 

Just imagine how those parents felt reading your abusive and insulting

comments.After all the suffering that they went through, they had to listen

to your mindless and emotional accusations, and you never apologized to

them.

 

My question to you is: " By what right do you permit your self to impose on

others your twisted picture about feelings for justice "?Just because you

are an older devotee, that doesnt mean that you are looking from the right

perspective to the solution of this problem, and that only your limited

vision is absolute.

 

Your servant

Janaka das

[Guest guest]

>

> Without protection of cows, brahminical culture cannot be maintained; and

> without brahminical culture, the aim of life cannot be fulfilled.

(Srila Prabhupada)

 

Madhava Gosh prabhu:

>

> Lack of following Srila Prabhupada's instructions on cow protection is the

> mother of all our problems.

 

> Gurukula abuse is a failure of maintaining brahminical standards, as will

> happen if cow protection is not there.

 

 

Cool comment. Nothing else but the unfulfillment of

the aim of life (due to lack of cow protection) is the explanation

for sexual abuse of children. Either "we" make it back to

Godhead, or "our" children will be raped by "us", Krsna's devotees

who missed to follow Srila Prabhupada's instruction on cow

protection.

 

However, there are still millions and millions of people who have

never heard the name "Prabhupada" nor the expression "brahminical

culture", and who are cow-eaters on top of that, and still they

don't rape their children. How to explain to them these reasons

for Krsna's children having been obnoxiously abused by Hare Krsna

teachers in the spiritual society ISCKON?

"Lack of caw protection". Laconic.

 

 

 

 

- mnd