Prabhupada says: Guru determines Varna? Is this siddhanta?

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"COM: Srirama (das) ACBSP" wrote:

 

> [Text 2628730 from COM]

>

> Hare Krishna,

>

> I read over your comments on the guru determining the varna of a

> disciple, as well as your quotes from Srila Prabhupada. I see your points,

> but I read the information in a different way. If you look again with an

> open mind, you might agree there is more than one way to look at this issue.

> Let's evaluate it through "guru, sadhu, sastra":

>

> -- Sastra first. If I'm not mistaken, there is no statement anywhere in

> the Vedic literature that states the guru selects the varna of the disciple.

 

Srila Prabhupada did not make up the idea of the guru selecting the disciple's

varna. I must apologize that I provided so many quotes from Srila Prabhupada,

that the Bhagavatam 5.19.19 translation was buried within them. It's a little

difficult for me to tell who the speaker is here, but I believe that it is

Sukadeva Goswami quoting a prayer by Narada Muni. I can't think of any higher

spiritual authority.

 

> Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 5: Chapter Nineteen, Text 19 :TRANSLATION

> TRANSLATION

> ... If one's position is ascertained by a bona fide spiritual master

> and one is properly trained to engage in the service of Lord Visnu according

> to the

> four social divisions [brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra] and the four

> spiritual divisions [brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa], one's

> life

> becomes perfect.

 

I have not read the rest of your letter yet, but in addition to our own guru,

Srila Prabhupada, stating that the guru determines his disciple's varna, and

the

example of sastra, we also incidents of other sadhus in giving a varna

determination for their disciples: 1. The most famous example of course is

Gautama Muni telling Satyakäma Jabala (the prostitute's son) that he was a

brahmana (April 20, 1975 conversation, and others). 2. A more recent example

was Srila Bhaktisiddhanta who looked at a very intelligent young man who came

from a suvarna-varnik business family (normally considered vaisyas or sudras in

Bengal [Adi 7.45]) and indicated that he was not by any means a sudra or vaisya

but rather a brahmana, because he requested that young man to go and preach in

the West. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's varna determination of his disciple was

fully

validated when that disciple went on to become ISKCON's founder-acarya and

established over 100 temples all over the world.