Begging to be initiated by householder brahmanas

[Guest guest]

"COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA)" wrote:

 

> [Text 2675269 from COM]

>

> >

> > Harsi prabhu, I think that you misunderstood Madhavaghos prabhu. I think

> > that he agrees with me and says that philosophy that grihasthas are by the

> > definition fallen was something that Kirtananda, who was the only sannyasi

> > in the movement for 3 years, has preached. Is that right Madhava-ghos

> > prabhu?

>

> Exactly.

>

> Certainly we normally expect more preaching from sannyasis than grhastras,

but

> Kirtanananda twisted that to a degree way out of balance.

 

Sometimes when we hear views like this -- that all householders are

automatically

fallen -- you can't help wondering if some of these leaders ever read

Prabhupada's

books. What about Prabhupada? What about Bhaktivinode Thakur? Were they

fallen

when they were engaged in household life?

 

I also wonder if Kirtanananda ever read the Caitanya Caritamrta, when

Prabhupada

says that people "beg to be initiated by a householder brahmana." Why would

they

beg to be initiated from a brahmana who is by definition fallen? If they are

fallen, how would they be able to "free their followers from material desires"

as

Prabhupada describes? It's ridiculous. Obviously, Kirtanananda's disciples

couldn't have done much worse getting initiated by some of our householder

brahmanas than they did by getting initiated by sannyasi who later turned out

to be

a sexual pervert. I can think of a number of householder brahmanas who to this

day

don't have any disciples who could have done a much better job of elevating

their

disciples to a platform of robust spiritual health than did Kirtanananda or any

number of other sannyasi "you-are-married-so-you-are-fallen" preachers.

(Note:

Definitely there are many sober sannyasis even now who do not preach this

concoction.)

 

Anyway, for the pleasure of the varnasrama.development devotees, here's

Prabhupada's statement. (I'm also sending a blind copy of this to the women's

conference.)

 

******************

 

When a person is initiated, it is assumed that he has become a brahmana;

without

being initiated by a proper brahmana, one cannot be converted into a brahmana.

In

other words, unless one is a brahmana, he cannot make another a brahmana. A

grhastha-brahmana partaking of the varnasrama-dharma institution can secure

various

types of paraphernalia to worship Lord Visnu through his honest labor.

Actually,

people beg to be initiated by these householder brahmanas just to become

successful

in the varnasrama institution or to become free from material desires.

 

============ REF. Madhya 4.111

 

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi