Brahmanya & rajanya

[Guest guest]

>I beg to inform all participants that we are all on the SAME SIDE, and we are

>all trying to following Prabhupada to the best of our ability.

 

In a sense, yes: I assume that everyone on Com is a living entity, a

Vaisnava, a devotee of Lord Caitanya. So far, yes, we are on the same side

-- as opposed to non-living entities, non-Vaisnavas, etc.

But look at what you say further down in your text; aren't you saying that

we are, in fact, not all on same side of the institutional fence?

 

>if ISKCON initiates are leaving in droves, then the

>question is not so much why Narayan Maharaja is offering them shelter and a

>new conenction, but why these devotees feel so dissatisfied they are ready to

>denounce their former ISKCON connections

 

Aren't you also implying that not everyone in ISKCON is trying to serve

Prabhupada to the best of their ability? You keep telling us that GBC's and

gurus are not.

 

Now this is my point.

It is a fact of life that nothing in this world, including the organized

practice of spiritual life, is disembodied. As soon as I am a soul within a

body, there are boundaries to my self-expression, and there are both

distinctions from and interactions with you.

As soon as there are (religious, political, environmental, etc.)

institutions and organizations in this world there is rajanya --leadership,

authority, power positions, internal and inter-institutional

confrontations, institutional fences and doors... And (this is another fact

of life) as soon as there are organized institutions there is also abuse of

power, hypocrisy, even crime and war. What else is new? If you do not wish

to examine the Gaudiya Matha, you can always look at the Mahabharata or the

Rg Veda -- besides ISKCON, that is.

At the same time, of course, there will always be pockets of brahmanya

(spiritual oneness with minimal rajanya) somewhere in the world: traveling

sannyasis or settled babajis; small communities that are as self-sufficient

and as self-governed as possible.

 

And this is my hypothesis.

Gurus in ISKCON (some or all, I can't tell) are real gurus, i.e. they bring

their disciples (some or all, I can't tell) to the presence of Srila

Prabhupada, Lord Caitanya, Lord Jagannatha, Radha-Krsna.

This they do as their individual devotional service, not as mere ritual

specialists (ritviks).

And this they do based on their personal spiritual realizations and apart

from their own institutional performance (even in spite of their own abuses

of power, I'd venture to add).

In other words, both brahmanya and rajanya may coexist in the same

individual or institution.

 

>We cannot complain when people desert our company's product to patronize the

>"competition." They may just have the superior product.

 

Ok. Let's talk about Apple computer. A pioneer in the personal computer

industry -- the first with a visual interface, postcript fonts, no y2k bug,

etc. What happened to Apple down the road? Mismanagement, misappropriation

of funds, laying out of employees, wrong marketing strategies, wrong

product development decisions... The result: many customers, individuals

and corporations, migrated to other computer platforms; nobody would give a

penny for Apple stock; a laughingstock in the industry. And what's

happening now? Apple is back in business. The initial seed did not get

killed by the (abuse of) rajanya.

 

>As I have humbly suggested as per the advice of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

>Sarasvati Prabhupada: When we find ourselves disappointed and frustrated by

>others, don't criticize, but "Introspect. Find fault within."

 

I know someone who takes the abuses she was subjected to in ISKCON as

indications of her own karmic propensities -- sometime in the past she must

have done the same things to others; sometime in the future those same

propensities may pop up in herself.

Of course this is no fatalism to condone abuse and crime.

But when facing abuse and crime within ISKCON not everyone reacts the same.

Some devotees confine themselves to the privacy of their own homes or their

own services, some devotees go to Narayan Maharaja's movement, some

devotees start up their own movement, some devotees plan and plot how to

tear down ISKCON, and some devotees speak up within ISKCON, approach the

GBC's and gurus, open up new centers, set up new programs, etc.

 

Respectfully,

 

your servant,

Kunti dd

[Guest guest]

>I beg to inform all participants that we are all on the SAME SIDE, and we are

>all trying to following Prabhupada to the best of our ability.

 

In a sense, yes: I assume that everyone on Com is a living entity, a

Vaisnava, a devotee of Lord Caitanya. So far, yes, we are on the same side

-- as opposed to non-living entities, non-Vaisnavas, etc.

But look at what you say further down in your text; aren't you saying that

we are, in fact, not all on same side of the institutional fence?

 

>if ISKCON initiates are leaving in droves, then the

>question is not so much why Narayan Maharaja is offering them shelter and a

>new conenction, but why these devotees feel so dissatisfied they are ready to

>denounce their former ISKCON connections

 

Aren't you also implying that not everyone in ISKCON is trying to serve

Prabhupada to the best of their ability? You keep telling us that GBC's and

gurus are not.

 

Now this is my point.

It is a fact of life that nothing in this world, including the organized

practice of spiritual life, is disembodied. As soon as I am a soul within a

body, there are boundaries to my self-expression, and there are both

distinctions from and interactions with you.

As soon as there are (religious, political, environmental, etc.)

institutions and organizations in this world there is rajanya --leadership,

authority, power positions, internal and inter-institutional

confrontations, institutional fences and doors... And (this is another fact

of life) as soon as there are organized institutions there is also abuse of

power, hypocrisy, even crime and war. What else is new? If you do not wish

to examine the Gaudiya Matha, you can always look at the Mahabharata or the

Rg Veda -- besides ISKCON, that is.

At the same time, of course, there will always be pockets of brahmanya

(spiritual oneness with minimal rajanya) somewhere in the world: traveling

sannyasis or settled babajis; small communities that are as self-sufficient

and as self-governed as possible.

 

And this is my hypothesis.

Gurus in ISKCON (some or all, I can't tell) are real gurus, i.e. they bring

their disciples (some or all, I can't tell) to the presence of Srila

Prabhupada, Lord Caitanya, Lord Jagannatha, Radha-Krsna.

This they do as their individual devotional service, not as mere ritual

specialists (ritviks).

And this they do based on their personal spiritual realizations and apart

from their own institutional performance (even in spite of their own abuses

of power, I'd venture to add).

In other words, both brahmanya and rajanya may coexist in the same

individual or institution.

 

>We cannot complain when people desert our company's product to patronize the

>"competition." They may just have the superior product.

 

Ok. Let's talk about Apple computer. A pioneer in the personal computer

industry -- the first with a visual interface, postcript fonts, no y2k bug,

etc. What happened to Apple down the road? Mismanagement, misappropriation

of funds, laying out of employees, wrong marketing strategies, wrong

product development decisions... The result: many customers, individuals

and corporations, migrated to other computer platforms; nobody would give a

penny for Apple stock; a laughingstock in the industry. And what's

happening now? Apple is back in business. The initial seed did not get

killed by the (abuse of) rajanya.

 

>As I have humbly suggested as per the advice of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

>Sarasvati Prabhupada: When we find ourselves disappointed and frustrated by

>others, don't criticize, but "Introspect. Find fault within."

 

I know someone who takes the abuses she was subjected to in ISKCON as

indications of her own karmic propensities -- sometime in the past she must

have done the same things to others; sometime in the future those same

propensities may pop up in herself.

Of course this is no fatalism to condone abuse and crime.

But when facing abuse and crime within ISKCON not everyone reacts the same.

Some devotees confine themselves to the privacy of their own homes or their

own services, some devotees go to Narayan Maharaja's movement, some

devotees start up their own movement, some devotees plan and plot how to

tear down ISKCON, and some devotees speak up within ISKCON, approach the

GBC's and gurus, open up new centers, set up new programs, etc.

 

Respectfully,

 

your servant,

Kunti dd