Guest guest Posted October 12, 1999 Report Share Posted October 12, 1999 Dear Bhakta Sergei Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Regarding your new Dharma Sastra forum, I would simply like to publicly go on record to encourage you to be very cautious about this venture. My own personal view is that we should first seek to understand Srila Prabhupada's own instructions on varnasrama before we divert too much energy into investigating these other books. The very most important sections of these books Srila Prabhupada has already given us. For example, from Manu Samhita he has warned us against cow slaughter. At a point when most of our temples around the world have no milk to offer Krsna except for that from slaughtered cows, it almost seems incongruous and pretentious to focus on researching these other scriptures. What should our priorities be? Prabhupada said (March 1974) that we should be training our vaisyas in "cow protection and how to plow." I just don't think that this will be the result of our efforts when we start by studying the flowery words of the Vedas, instead of first getting a solid understanding of Prabhupada's vision of varnasrama. My own fear is that increased emphasis on Vedic sources will be at the expense of developing the self-sufficiency which I believe was a greater priority for Srila Prabhupada: "Grow your own food, produce your own cloth." I also fear that it will create an artificial "caste" system in which those who study these sastras look down their nose at those who are not familiar with them -- and thus be a source of even further division within ISKCON. Finally, I fear that immature readers will take too seriously the many harsh injunctions of the Vedas -- not understanding how Srila Prabhupada tempered and tamed them for our own era. If they attempt to apply them without Prabhupada's compassion and understanding, it could lead to ISKCON looking like a cult of dangerous fanatics. Having said this, I also realize that if you carefully study Srila Prabhupada's instructions on varnasrama *first* you may find some useful items in the Vedas. Good luck to you, but please be very, very careful, and please work to retain your humility. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi P.S. It is not "my" varnasrama book. It is a project of the ISKCON Farm Research Committee which was appointed by the GBC in 1992. It is actually a *Prabhupada* varnasrama book. We all worked together to present Srila Prabhupada's teachings. I compiled the book and Suresvara prabhu edited it. Many other devotees contributed to the funding (including Ambarish prabhu and a number of others) and the publishing (all the devotees at The Bhaktivedanta Archives). Before delving too deeply into the Vedas, I strongly advise any ISKCON devotees to first fortify themselves with Srila Prabhupada's direct instruction on varnasrama in order to maintain the correct perspective on what they find. *Srila Prabhupada on Varnasrama and Farm Community Development: Vol. 1 Speaking about Varnasrama* is currently available from the Bhaktivedanta Archives. The book is softbound 10"x7" size, illustrated with pen and ink drawings, and 278 pages, price $17.95. It is a compilation of 40 of the most important conversations, lectures and interviews on varnasrama-related topics offered by His Divine Grace. [NB. The Vedabase at this point contains only the partial manuscript, not the complete book.] The ISBN is 0-89312-316-3. For further information call 336-871-3636 archives (AT) earthlink (DOT) net or write to The Bhaktivedanta Archives, P.O. Box 255, Sandy Ridge NC 27046 U.S.A. ys, hkdd "COM: (Bhakta) Sergei Schmalz (Wiesbaden - D)" wrote: > [Text 2695366 from COM] > > Dear devotees, > please accept my respectful obeisances. > All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all other Vaisnavas! > All glories to Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai and Sri Sri Radha-Govinda! > > The Dharma Sastra Forum conference has been created on COM to > facilitate devotees to have discussions about the 20 dharma-sastras, the > source of main instructions and guidelines for Varnasrama institution. > Discussions held in this conference will cover only dharma-sastras' > contents and their applicability in today's and tomorrow's ISKCON. For other > overall topics there are Varnasrama Development and Practical Varnasrama > conferences, as well as separate conferences for each varna and asrama. > The main reason for creating of this conference is, of course, Srila > Prabhupada's desire to establish Varnasrama, as very nicely depicted in the > following quote: > "On the next occasion, some time later, I was with Srila Prabhupada > in his room when he made the statement, 'Fifty percent of my work is not > complete because I have not established varnasrama."" (Telephone Interview > with Abhirama dasa, Vrndrvana 18 Feb 1996 [from Hare Krsna dasi's book > "Varnasrama-dharma"]) > The Dharma Sastra Forum conference is a public conference, so that > everyone can join. Everybody is welcome. > > Here are some quotes about dharma-sastras' importance from Srila > Prabhupada's lecture and books: > > - There are twenty kinds of dharma-sastra composed by Manu, Parasara > and others. They are very difficult. All of them are meant for counteracting > our sinful life. (SB 6.3.25-26 lecture, 18 Feb 1971) > > - In Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami says that if one > poses himself as advanced in spiritual life but does not refer to the srutis > and smrtis he is simply a disturbance in society. One should follow the > principles laid down in srutis and smrtis not only in one's spiritual life > but in material life as well. As far as human society is concerned, it > should follow the Manu-smrti as well, for these laws are given by Manu, the > father of mankind. (SB 4.18.3, purport) > > - The revealed scriptures, like Manu-samhita and similar others, are > considered the standard books to be followed by human society. Thus the > leader's teaching should be based on the principles of such standard > sastras. (BG 3.21, purport) > > - Actually the qualified brahmanas are meant to give direction to > the kings for proper administration in terms of the scriptures like the > Manu-samhita and Dharma-sastras of Parasara. (SB 1.9.27, purport) > > - The Manu-samhita is the standard lawbook for humanity, and every > human being is advised to follow this great book of social knowledge. (SB > 2.1.36, purport) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 1999 Report Share Posted October 12, 1999 Dear Bhakta Sergei Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Regarding your new Dharma Sastra forum, I would simply like to publicly go on record to encourage you to be very cautious about this venture. My own personal view is that we should first seek to understand Srila Prabhupada's own instructions on varnasrama before we divert too much energy into investigating these other books. The very most important sections of these books Srila Prabhupada has already given us. For example, from Manu Samhita he has warned us against cow slaughter. At a point when most of our temples around the world have no milk to offer Krsna except for that from slaughtered cows, it almost seems incongruous and pretentious to focus on researching these other scriptures. What should our priorities be? Prabhupada said (March 1974) that we should be training our vaisyas in "cow protection and how to plow." I just don't think that this will be the result of our efforts when we start by studying the flowery words of the Vedas, instead of first getting a solid understanding of Prabhupada's vision of varnasrama. My own fear is that increased emphasis on Vedic sources will be at the expense of developing the self-sufficiency which I believe was a greater priority for Srila Prabhupada: "Grow your own food, produce your own cloth." I also fear that it will create an artificial "caste" system in which those who study these sastras look down their nose at those who are not familiar with them -- and thus be a source of even further division within ISKCON. Finally, I fear that immature readers will take too seriously the many harsh injunctions of the Vedas -- not understanding how Srila Prabhupada tempered and tamed them for our own era. If they attempt to apply them without Prabhupada's compassion and understanding, it could lead to ISKCON looking like a cult of dangerous fanatics. Having said this, I also realize that if you carefully study Srila Prabhupada's instructions on varnasrama *first* you may find some useful items in the Vedas. Good luck to you, but please be very, very careful, and please work to retain your humility. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi P.S. It is not "my" varnasrama book. It is a project of the ISKCON Farm Research Committee which was appointed by the GBC in 1992. It is actually a *Prabhupada* varnasrama book. We all worked together to present Srila Prabhupada's teachings. I compiled the book and Suresvara prabhu edited it. Many other devotees contributed to the funding (including Ambarish prabhu and a number of others) and the publishing (all the devotees at The Bhaktivedanta Archives). Before delving too deeply into the Vedas, I strongly advise any ISKCON devotees to first fortify themselves with Srila Prabhupada's direct instruction on varnasrama in order to maintain the correct perspective on what they find. *Srila Prabhupada on Varnasrama and Farm Community Development: Vol. 1 Speaking about Varnasrama* is currently available from the Bhaktivedanta Archives. The book is softbound 10"x7" size, illustrated with pen and ink drawings, and 278 pages, price $17.95. It is a compilation of 40 of the most important conversations, lectures and interviews on varnasrama-related topics offered by His Divine Grace. [NB. The Vedabase at this point contains only the partial manuscript, not the complete book.] The ISBN is 0-89312-316-3. For further information call 336-871-3636 archives (AT) earthlink (DOT) net or write to The Bhaktivedanta Archives, P.O. Box 255, Sandy Ridge NC 27046 U.S.A. ys, hkdd "COM: (Bhakta) Sergei Schmalz (Wiesbaden - D)" wrote: > [Text 2695366 from COM] > > Dear devotees, > please accept my respectful obeisances. > All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all other Vaisnavas! > All glories to Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai and Sri Sri Radha-Govinda! > > The Dharma Sastra Forum conference has been created on COM to > facilitate devotees to have discussions about the 20 dharma-sastras, the > source of main instructions and guidelines for Varnasrama institution. > Discussions held in this conference will cover only dharma-sastras' > contents and their applicability in today's and tomorrow's ISKCON. For other > overall topics there are Varnasrama Development and Practical Varnasrama > conferences, as well as separate conferences for each varna and asrama. > The main reason for creating of this conference is, of course, Srila > Prabhupada's desire to establish Varnasrama, as very nicely depicted in the > following quote: > "On the next occasion, some time later, I was with Srila Prabhupada > in his room when he made the statement, 'Fifty percent of my work is not > complete because I have not established varnasrama."" (Telephone Interview > with Abhirama dasa, Vrndrvana 18 Feb 1996 [from Hare Krsna dasi's book > "Varnasrama-dharma"]) > The Dharma Sastra Forum conference is a public conference, so that > everyone can join. Everybody is welcome. > > Here are some quotes about dharma-sastras' importance from Srila > Prabhupada's lecture and books: > > - There are twenty kinds of dharma-sastra composed by Manu, Parasara > and others. They are very difficult. All of them are meant for counteracting > our sinful life. (SB 6.3.25-26 lecture, 18 Feb 1971) > > - In Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami says that if one > poses himself as advanced in spiritual life but does not refer to the srutis > and smrtis he is simply a disturbance in society. One should follow the > principles laid down in srutis and smrtis not only in one's spiritual life > but in material life as well. As far as human society is concerned, it > should follow the Manu-smrti as well, for these laws are given by Manu, the > father of mankind. (SB 4.18.3, purport) > > - The revealed scriptures, like Manu-samhita and similar others, are > considered the standard books to be followed by human society. Thus the > leader's teaching should be based on the principles of such standard > sastras. (BG 3.21, purport) > > - Actually the qualified brahmanas are meant to give direction to > the kings for proper administration in terms of the scriptures like the > Manu-samhita and Dharma-sastras of Parasara. (SB 1.9.27, purport) > > - The Manu-samhita is the standard lawbook for humanity, and every > human being is advised to follow this great book of social knowledge. (SB > 2.1.36, purport) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 Dear Hare Krsna Mataji, please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all other Vaisnavas! All glories to Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai and Sri Sri Radha-Govinda! > Regarding your new Dharma Sastra Forum, I would simply like to publicly go > on record to encourage you to be very cautious about this venture. I thank You very much for Your warning, because it helps me to strengthen my already too cautious mind. I am well aware of many possible dangers awaiting each of us "by the next corner". I completely agree with You in that. > My own personal view is that we should first seek to understand Srila > Prabhupada's own instructions on varnasrama before we divert too much > energy into investigating these other books. The very most important > sections of these books Srila Prabhupada has already given us. For > example, from Manu Samhita he has warned us against cow slaughter. I think, we'll first discuss in that conference what Srila Prabhupada and previous Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas have said in this regard, and only later on we'll move to ONLY some topcis of all 20 dharma-sastras. And still later, time will show (dea-k€la-patra). As You read in my presentation: "Discussions held in this [Dharma Sastra Forum] conference will cover only dharma-sastras' contents and their applicability in today's and tomorrow's ISKCON." So, the word "applicability" was considerably put into the text by me, because we can't expect our e.g. brahmacaris live as prescribed in dharma-sastras. But this fact doesn't mean that we may ignore dharma-sastras at all, because even Bhagavatam contains similar instructions, and we can't just ignore any verse from it. We have to "do the needful", as Srila Prabhupada used to write in his letters. After all, it is anyway better to get a chance to live in a society, whose social structure works according to dharma-sastras. It's just a question of (definitely long) time, when and how this or that principle is possible to be implied in ISKCON and maybe even outside it. > Having said this, I also realize that if you carefully study Srila > Prabhupada's instructions on varnasrama *first* you may find some useful > items in the Vedas. Good luck to you, but please be very, very careful, > and please work to retain your humility. Thank You once again, I'll try my best with Your and other devotees' help and blessings. I am certainly not ideal. > P.S. It is not "my" varnasrama book. It is a project of the ISKCON Farm > Research Committee which was appointed by the GBC in 1992. I didn't know that, nor did I see such information in the Bhaktivedanta Vedabase 4.11, from which I've quoted it. Your most unworthy servant, Sergei. Hare Krsna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 1999 Report Share Posted October 13, 1999 Dear Hare Krsna Mataji, please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all other Vaisnavas! All glories to Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai and Sri Sri Radha-Govinda! > Regarding your new Dharma Sastra Forum, I would simply like to publicly go > on record to encourage you to be very cautious about this venture. I thank You very much for Your warning, because it helps me to strengthen my already too cautious mind. I am well aware of many possible dangers awaiting each of us "by the next corner". I completely agree with You in that. > My own personal view is that we should first seek to understand Srila > Prabhupada's own instructions on varnasrama before we divert too much > energy into investigating these other books. The very most important > sections of these books Srila Prabhupada has already given us. For > example, from Manu Samhita he has warned us against cow slaughter. I think, we'll first discuss in that conference what Srila Prabhupada and previous Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas have said in this regard, and only later on we'll move to ONLY some topcis of all 20 dharma-sastras. And still later, time will show (dea-k€la-patra). As You read in my presentation: "Discussions held in this [Dharma Sastra Forum] conference will cover only dharma-sastras' contents and their applicability in today's and tomorrow's ISKCON." So, the word "applicability" was considerably put into the text by me, because we can't expect our e.g. brahmacaris live as prescribed in dharma-sastras. But this fact doesn't mean that we may ignore dharma-sastras at all, because even Bhagavatam contains similar instructions, and we can't just ignore any verse from it. We have to "do the needful", as Srila Prabhupada used to write in his letters. After all, it is anyway better to get a chance to live in a society, whose social structure works according to dharma-sastras. It's just a question of (definitely long) time, when and how this or that principle is possible to be implied in ISKCON and maybe even outside it. > Having said this, I also realize that if you carefully study Srila > Prabhupada's instructions on varnasrama *first* you may find some useful > items in the Vedas. Good luck to you, but please be very, very careful, > and please work to retain your humility. Thank You once again, I'll try my best with Your and other devotees' help and blessings. I am certainly not ideal. > P.S. It is not "my" varnasrama book. It is a project of the ISKCON Farm > Research Committee which was appointed by the GBC in 1992. I didn't know that, nor did I see such information in the Bhaktivedanta Vedabase 4.11, from which I've quoted it. Your most unworthy servant, Sergei. Hare Krsna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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