The hell called - Gurukula

[Guest guest]

Dear prabhus.AGSP first of all let me say that I shed tears with many of the

devotees of ISKCON about the atrocities that many of you have expirience,yes

I know what are you feeling since I to was a victim of abuse in my

chilhood,now im 35.

Coming from a well stablish family when my parents divorce my father send

some of us to Europe to get a good education,he send us with a tutor nice

lady ,after we were there she made us eat vomit, burn our hands, hit me with

and iron, cold water running hitting me with a extension cord,I still

remember and sometimes yes a cry.i pee on my bed until I was 12.

So when my father find out, after few years we return to my country I bet if

it was America I will have fund a hungry sick lawyer that will brain wash me

to sue my own father, was my father guilty??were my older sister guilty

keeping the silence wile this hell was going on??is KRSNA guilty???NO

wherever happen to me happen because of my karma, so shall I cry and roll in

drugs and beat myself in the head ''I was molested,!!!!I hate my father he

send me to Europe!!!!I will not trust nobody again!!!I dont want to

work,etcetcetcshall I take my own money and give it to the lawyers so they

can have a merry life? my point is you dear gurukulis think that by suing

ISKCON and getting big money like the lawyers will tell you, you think you

gonna be happy, and be relive from suffering??you think that seen SRILA

PRABHUPADA teachings been spit on by the karmi population is gonna be

beneficial for you the society, the world??no you gonna give more advantage

to Maya, so it can hamper the pure desire of many SP disciples and

grandisciples to surrender to KRSNA,

not every body in ISKCON is a sick molester why innocent people have to paid

for it, sue the individual send him to jail, why trying to burn you own

house??.

The only shelter that we have is vaisnava sanga,maha mantra ,seva,prasadam,by

taking shelter in the karmi law the only thing you gonna do is to make more

difficult your spiritual advancment,yes I talk with many gurukulis I have

many friends and I relate myself with them,but the solution is not blame

ISKCON ,get money and go on indulging in intoxication, disco party, and

offending nice sincere devotees that have never done nothing wrong, the

reality is that is not just the gurukulas faults,is also the parents faults,I

see in my practical life, devotees don't espend time with their chidren,we

are lazy, we are in Maya, parents don't talk to children, we are mess up, as

a society we are very young inexpirience,and more bad things are gonna still

happen, why?? because we are in the material world,so I dont remember my

early days as hell,yes I was molested but life goes on also I expirience the

love of my family,my sisters,etc,why been stok in your friking past??

Abimanyu die in the batterfield when he was 16 he gave up his life for the

cause, many of your parents send you to gurukula for the same cause and some

of you not all, were attack by demons why keep a revenge mood against your

family??are your karmi lawyers and friends gonna stop your

pain??NO!!!!!!SADHANA BAKTI!!!!!!!!! is the only solution,I have a gurukuli

friend that told me,I use that as an excuse so I can party in Maya with no

regret, now im growing up and I got to become serious in my spiritual life,

so please I beg you to don't give the chance to the lawyers to get SP

money,dont taint your hands with ISKCON laxmi,specially if you gonna use it

to forget KRSNA more,Everytime the gurukulis are in the temple is a

party,thats the real party, please get closer to us let us help you so in the

future that doesn't happen again, I beg to all of you have mercy, be

forgiving at least with the innocent, sue the individual send him to jail, if

you please but please ISKCON is working more that ever for the children of

KRSNA

my name is Premananda goura das I always feel like a gurukuli,Im afraid,

still I send my kids to MAYAPUR GURUKULA,I try to train my kids since they

were very little to be aware of demons predetors,SRILA PRABHUPADA WARN US

there are demons in the dress of devotees in this KC movement, still I have

faith in KRSNA I know that just like there are sexual predetors,there is also

the karmi music,movies,and all of that that you love so much,((I got teens

nieces and sons)) are also attacking my children here every day here out side

of our culture KC culture,so NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!!!!,you want to become a

devotee?not sentimental but practical,really?,so get with SP program and get

on with your lives.say not to drugs,say no to suing ISKCON say yes to love

and care, for the future generatios.I BEG

premananda goura das.

[Guest guest]

> So when my father find out, after few years we return to my country I bet

> if it was America I will have fund a hungry sick lawyer that will brain

> wash me to sue my own father, was my father guilty?? Were my older sister

> guilty keeping the silence wile this hell was going on??

> Is KRSNA guilty???

 

> NO wherever happen to me happen because of my karma,..

 

I wonder if the same could not be also aplicable to the institution wich

allowed that this "karma" could take place. Is it posible to stop THAT

karma, and how?

 

ys, Harsi das

[Guest guest]

Karma is cure by dharma,our dharma is to protect and clean ISKCON of unwanted

impurities, concoctions,deviations,molesters, theories and so on,Iskcon is

for the next, generations, we have to work together as a family to solve all

the problems that we have, we have to clean our heart in congregations, we

have to chant hare KRSNA in our homes, we have to chant bajans with our

children, we have to teach them how to cook, worship etc,we spend more time

gazzeping,and watching tv ,we are not teaching our kids KC like SP wanted

us,we don't chant with our kids!!! as far I know I ask some parents and like

me said no!!ups we have to make SP happy and raise the standard of our KC

family, we have to work in cooperation,

your servant

premananda goura das

[Guest guest]

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

 

Text COM:2693605 (33 lines)

Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley - USA)

11-Oct-99 23:40

Topical Discussions [311]

---------------------------

> So when my father find out, after few years we return to my country I bet

> if it was America I will have fund a hungry sick lawyer that will brain

> wash me to sue my own father, was my father guilty??

 

I'm very sorry to hear of your tremendous suffering that robbed you of so

much of your childhood.

 

In terms of who is responsible, I don't think any of the gurukula alumni are

suing their parents (although they may be, for negligence). I think they're

are suing the abusers and the specific institutions (i.e. certain gurukulas)

that allowed this abuse to continue without interfering and whose

authorities

appointed abusers and molesters to worok with the children, without

conducting

any background checks or providing adequate supervision. Some of these

things

are stipulated by law and if the school authorities were found to have been

criminally negligent, thereby facilitating the abuse, they will be found

guilty. That's what happened to the Catholic church in Dallas. That case was

handled by the same law firm that is now representing the gurukula alumni.

 

So yes, ultimately the issue of responsibility is up to the laws of karma

(which we don't understand very well). However, there is also a law of

responsibility in the different countries in which we live and Prabhupada

wanted us to follow those too and be perfect ladies and gentlemen. So we

have to and we should count on being held accountable when we don't.

 

The silver lining of all of this publicity is that we finally got decent

internal laws re. child protection and that the GBC established the

international office for Child Protection (the fact that its funding is

about to disappear is another issue). Now let's al work on making sure they

are enforced locally. How many devotees on this conference are aware of

whether their nearest ISKCON community has a Child Protection Team?

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

Premananda Goura prabhu's letter was indeed wonderful to read.

 

Not to want revenge is a very Vaisnava virtue. Justice can be sought by

providing evidence against individuals who actually did the molesting. And

true well-wishers of Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon can work with the Iskcon

devotees who have now been charged with the task of protecting our current

and future children from abuse.

[Guest guest]

>

> I wonder how much laxmi is being spent on building Mayapur project at the

> same time as the OCP is shutting down due to lack of funds?

 

I know in New Vrindaban, one reason Kirtanananda kept doing building projects,

was that it is fairly easy to raise money for construction - it is exciting,

easy to see results, etc.

 

So the question is probably not how much is being spent on buildings, the real

question is how much of that money is from general funds that could be

reallocated, and how much is specifically donated for that project that

wouldn't be there if you tried to reallocate it.

 

I don't mean that as either a slur on Mayapur project or as a defense. Just a

reality.

[Guest guest]

Dear Godbrother:

Please accept my humble obeisances. all the glories to Srila

Prabhupada.

 

Thank you very much for your letter, you are so true with your reflexion.

I fully agree with you in the message to the Gurukulis, but I see that if

we want back those kids, ISKCON authorities have to do something beside the

children. is not just to say sue those ones who abuse, ISKCON HAVE TO DO IT

TOO.

ISKCON must fire them out!!! and then Gurukulis will feel that ISKCON

is acting properly, fireing out all those demons with dhotis & tilak. We

cann't leave the work for them, we are a family, Srila Prabhupada taught us

this, if someone will abuse my kids I myself will go out to do something, I

will be wrong if I just will say my son, You go and do it! I should be

beside him, then my son will trust me. no other way.

 

your servant, Sridhari devi dasi

[Guest guest]

Dear Premananda Gaura Prabhu,

 

please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your letter. I feel very sorry for what happenend to you in

your childhood. Due to my service I am taking care of those devotees who

got molested before they joined KC and I may able to understand a little bit

what traumatic situations you have gone through.

 

Although these devotees took shelter in a spiritual society they still

suffer under the past traumatic memories.

 

When I read the beginning of your letter I felt quite sad and sorry, but

honestly spoken by the rest I got really angry. Please understand my

intension when I respond to it like the following:

 

> So when my father find out, after few years we return to my country I bet

> if it was America I will have fund a hungry sick lawyer that will brain

> wash me to sue my own father, was my father guilty??were my older sister

> guilty keeping the silence wile this hell was going on??is KRSNA

> guilty???

 

First of all I think that there is a difference between you and Raghunath.

He and *hundreds* of other kids got molested in a *spiritual* society. He

doesn't sue his mother, he doesn't sue his father and he doesn't sue Krsna

nor Srila Prabhupada. He sues our society and I find it more than correct. I

feel guilty too, since when I joined this movement 15 years ago I already

heard through the grape vine that molesting was going on in different

gurukulas. Did I inform myself? No. All what I decided was to send my

children in a private "karmi" school.

 

> NO wherever happen to me happen because of my karma,

 

I think that Raghunath knows everything about Karma and he accepted it

for himself. But that was not his point. Since he is a friend of mine I know

that he is not interested in revenge. He wants justice. It is already a

shame that he himself (as a victim) has to fight for it. Protection should

come from a society and this means since we have a hirarchy it has to come

from the GBC too.

 

More than ten to 15 years the abuses are already known but nothing happened.

Still we have to pay obeisances to 'HIS HOLINESS', abusers who are still in

sannyas dresses, or people who were tolerating the abuses, who closed their

eyes for years are still sitting in the GBC meetings or.... when an ex-zonal

Archarya guru who molested boys was heartly welcomed with a big kirtan in

Mayapur 2 years ago, or.... a abuser who molested a boy so long that he got

a back problem just got the service (since he professionaly can deal with

the government) to be the head of a court against the Rtviks.... Believe me,

there are hundreds of other stories more...

 

Who is sentimental here ?? Isn't it like a slap in the face ??

 

Instead of giving the ex-gurukulis bad feelings or treathen them if ISKCON

fails you should stand up and fight for them. Make also the GBC understand

that they finally have to clean up in their own rangs.

 

Y.s. Hariballabha dd

[Guest guest]

Dear Anantarupa Prabhu, Hare Krsna.

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

> > And to add salt

> > to the wound, none of our leaders who pledged the money are providing

> > any explanations for this turn of events. The victims feel completely

> > ignored and like they only matter when ISKCON wants to defend itself

> > against bad press coverage (that's when the press release about the

> > pledged money was issued) or when they're threatening to sue. How sad.

>

> Sad? I think it is a scandal, it is criminal neglicence, it is

> foolishness, it is incompetence and a society who cannot get together 13

> 000 USD a year for the protection and resozialization of their abused kids

> can never "take over the world". Those who are callous to the suffering of

> their own kids must not claim to represent the highest dharma.

 

You are absolutelly right, but you should not worry very much, because

everything is in Krsnas hands.Since our incompetent and irresponsible

leaders are continuing to destroy ISKCON by their foolish decisions, Krsna

and Srila Prabhupada will most likely take ISKCON away from them.This will

happen when victims of gurukula abuse, by court order, come in possession of

all ISKCON temples, land and money.May be than, ISKCON will start to

flourish, and become a loveing and careing organization, in the way that

Srila Prabhupada always wanted it to be.

 

> Was not Maharaja Sibi ready to give his very own flesh to protect a pigeon

> who took shelter of him? Isn´t that the standard of leadership given in

> the Bhagavatam? King Sibi was ready to give his life for a bird but we are

> not able to spare a few dollars for our own kids? Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

> Sarasvati Thakur said better to sell the marble of the Bhagh Bazaar temple

> and use the money to print books. Perhaps it is now better to stop

> collecting for making big big temples, and collect to help our own abused

> kids instead.

>

> What is the use of big big temples anyway, if they simply turn into dens

> of pedophiles just waiting for the opportune moment to strike at another

> innocent kid? If the GBC go out of their way now to help the kids who got

> victimized in ISKCON, the kids will never forget it. In the future, they

> will build temples for ISKCON. If the GBC refuse to help, the kids will

> not only give up spiritual life for good, but will also take ISKCON´s

> money and temples by force.

 

Yes, the pedophiles are still protected inside the ISKCON organization,

while the gurukula victims have to seek justice by court.

 

Wery wrong are those who think that Krsna will take side of GBC in this

court case, and protect those who are guilty for causing this catastrophe.

Krsna knows everything, all the suffering and injustice that 1.000 gurukula

kids have experienced in ISKCON, and He will sat things strait by inflicting

justice.

 

This justice that will occur in the near future we all must accept as Krsnas

will.We should listen to our heart and see what Krsna is trying to say to

as, and act acording to that knowledge.

 

> your servant

> anantarupa das

 

Your servant

Janaka das

[Guest guest]

yes mataji there is a lots of things that I dont understand ,and I have faith

that the GBC will take care of it,sorry if I ofend you,please forgive all my

offenses.

as per all the gurukulis,I hope they forgive all my offenses but,the bottom

line is that ISKCON is a big family,some people are sick,the authorities of

ISKCON will have to become every day more and more hard,and make sure this

kind of crazy stuff dont happen again,I agree with you,fortunally we have a

group of nice devotees working with gurukulis to try to repair our

offenses,that have nothing to do with this kind of talk like the hell call

gurukula,SP gave us gurukula,some melechas make it hell for some victims.but

still there are many devotees as we speak working in gurukula trying to serve

SP with love and protection to the new generations,I think some of this

gurukulis that have problems should preach to the new generations about the

demons that atak them so they can be more aware and to help us in this

horrible figth that we have to face due to our melechas and sudras

propensities,wee also need their help,by suing and making a lawyer rich,and

getting money,they are not gonna fix nothing,gurukula is wonderfull,is not

hell,

your servant

premananda goura.