Guest guest Posted October 21, 1999 Report Share Posted October 21, 1999 > > Re HKS, there are many more cases like his, and hundreds if not thousands > of devotees who woudn't have come if not for *fallen* sannyasis. Now this philosophy I hear regularly since many years, glorifying Srila Prabhupada for "sacrificing" his disciples for Krsna,s and for our sake otherwise "we would not have come" to Krsna consciousness. So Srila Prabhupada did all the things wich proved to be a failure in most cases, like convincing or forcing in a suttle way some of his most dedicated and inteligent disciples to take sanaysa, so that he could send them out to preach, so that "we could have come to Krsna consciousness". But why only a sanyasy can do that? Is it maybe because Prabhupada himselve was "forced" in a dream by his spiritual master to do this in order to be succesfull in his preaching the bhakti cult all over the world? Isnt it a little to simple to explain everything what Prabhupada did in this regard, in this way? Another vision is also this one. >I suppose the basic point is still the same, there are serious problems due >to neglecting the needs of the individuals, especially those who should be >cared for, loved and protected, and most importantly, ourselves. However, I >no longer think that by applying Srila Prabhupada's teachings that this >basic problem can be resolved since the problem came to a large extent from >his teachings and mood. > Prabhupada's teachings are not always the vedic teachings. The defects >that I was speaking of is the premature preaching of renunciation and the >inability to take care of the need's of children, women and the family >which is the basis of society. >>Understanding this gave me great pain, but I have learned to deal with it >without >>being negative while embracing the positive in life and moving > forward. Ok Prabhus I,m prepared to go to hell for my offences or whatever but maybe someone is so compasionate towards me to give another light to what Prabhupada did and why he did what he did, and why many things he did proved to be a failure wich need to be corected. a fallen harsi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 1999 Report Share Posted October 21, 1999 > > Re HKS, there are many more cases like his, and hundreds if not thousands > of devotees who woudn't have come if not for *fallen* sannyasis. Now this philosophy I hear regularly since many years, glorifying Srila Prabhupada for "sacrificing" his disciples for Krsna,s and for our sake otherwise "we would not have come" to Krsna consciousness. So Srila Prabhupada did all the things wich proved to be a failure in most cases, like convincing or forcing in a suttle way some of his most dedicated and inteligent disciples to take sanaysa, so that he could send them out to preach, so that "we could have come to Krsna consciousness". But why only a sanyasy can do that? Is it maybe because Prabhupada himselve was "forced" in a dream by his spiritual master to do this in order to be succesfull in his preaching the bhakti cult all over the world? Isnt it a little to simple to explain everything what Prabhupada did in this regard, in this way? Another vision is also this one. >I suppose the basic point is still the same, there are serious problems due >to neglecting the needs of the individuals, especially those who should be >cared for, loved and protected, and most importantly, ourselves. However, I >no longer think that by applying Srila Prabhupada's teachings that this >basic problem can be resolved since the problem came to a large extent from >his teachings and mood. > Prabhupada's teachings are not always the vedic teachings. The defects >that I was speaking of is the premature preaching of renunciation and the >inability to take care of the need's of children, women and the family >which is the basis of society. >>Understanding this gave me great pain, but I have learned to deal with it >without >>being negative while embracing the positive in life and moving > forward. Ok Prabhus I,m prepared to go to hell for my offences or whatever but maybe someone is so compasionate towards me to give another light to what Prabhupada did and why he did what he did, and why many things he did proved to be a failure wich need to be corected. a fallen harsi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Patita-Pavan Srila Prabhupada. HARE KRISHNA . I never met Srila Prabhupada in person , but all his disciples (grhastha or sanyasi ) I have met so far are really wonderful personalities who have a deep respect , love and affection for Srila Prabhupada and who have rendered so much service to him. None of them finds fault with Srila Prabhupada. Instead they say it was Srila Prabhupada’s love and his absorption in Krishna and the mission of his spiritual master that transformed their lives for good . I was in Alachua last Vyasa-Puja and there were many disciples of Srila Prabhupada who spoke on the occasion. I could clearly see that they had so much love for Srila Prabhupada. Infact some of them couldn’t hold back their tears as they spoke -- recalling their personal experiences with Srila Prabhupada and how much Srila Prabhupada loved and cared for his disciples. And sometimes it makes me wonder how these western people could have accepted Krishna Consciousness and the Vedic culture so seriously. I preach according to my own capacity but I know how difficult it is to even make a person understand the basics of Krishna Consciousness (especially in the western world )and here is Srila Prabhupada who has made thousands of devotees of Sri Krishna . It is said that unless one is empowered by Krishna one cannot spread the Krishna Consciousness movement. So Srila Prabhupada is not an ordinary person , He was an empowered representative of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who had just come to fulfill the Lord’s prophecy ( that His name would be chanted in every town and village) It would be very wrong to blame Srila Prabhupada who sacrificed so much by coming at an advanced age just to carry out the order of his spiritual master without any personal consideration. He came at an age of 70 with just US $8. He suffered 3 heart attacks on the sea and finally reached the US after spending nearly 35 days on the ship. After coming to the US , he had to intially live with people who were meat-eaters, then in the Bowery which was full of drunks and people taking drugs. He would personally cook prasadam and wash the utensils after the guests who had taken prasadam left . Above all, imagine going to preach in a place where people had no idea of Krishna and engaged in the most abominable sinful activities . Srila Prabhupada had practically no help or friends or money with him. Doesn't this show his deep faith and conviction in the Supreme Lord? These are just a few of the many things that come to my mind now . In fact his life is full of sacrifice and he was genuinely concerned about the welfare of others. If not why would he undergo so many hardships ? Although he could have comfortably lived in Vrindavana for the rest of his life , he underwent so many hardships just to enlighten us about the goal of life. How could we blame Srila Prabhupada ? It is just because of Srila Prabhupada’s books that so many people get a clear direction in life. We have been saved from committing the most abominable activities and thus going to hell. Instead of going to hell , we can now go back to Godhead , isn’t that great ? Imagine otherwise how much sinful the life of the people would have been. eg in the sastra it is said that if one eats beef one will be killed as many times as the number of hairs on the body of a cow. If it were not for Srila Prabhupada’s books who would have enlightened us about this ? (especially in the west where "beef-eating" is considered normal !) How can we blame Srila Prabhupada who pain-stakingly wrote so many books just to guide us in our journey Back to Godhead ? Instead shouldn’t we be grateful to him ? All those who helped Srila Prabhupada spread the Krsna Consciousness movement have done a wonderful service to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the acharyas of the Brahma-Madhva Sampradaya. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had predicted that His name would be chanted in every town and village, so all the disciples who helped Srila Prabhupada fulfill this prophecy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are very fortunate and whatever service they have done (in whatever capacity) is their permanent credit,(unless they start blaspheming Srila Prabhupada and the Vaishnavas) even if they were unable to keep up with their vows later on . How can so much service to a pure devotee go invain ? And Srila Prabhupada appreciated services from all classes of devotees , whether grihastha or sanyasis. Infact Prabhupada had initially sent some of his grihastha disciples to start a preaching center in London and when he heard of their success he made a remark that his grihastha disciples had done better than his sanyasi godbrothers. This is just one example to show that Prabhupada was appreciative of any service done to help him in fulfilling the desire of his spiritual master. There are many examples like this . Srila Prabhupada himself got so many of his disciples married . He writes in the Bhagavad Gita : (Purport to 18.5) "The yogis should perform acts for the advancement of human society. There are many purificatory processes for advancing a human being to spiritual life. The marriage ceremony, for example, is considered to be one of these sacrifices. It is called vivaha-yajna. Should a sannyasi, who is in the renounced order of life and who has given up his family relations, encourage the marriage ceremony? The Lord says here that any sacrifice which is meant for human welfare should never be given up. Vivaha-yajna, the marriage ceremony, is meant to regulate the human mind so that it may become peaceful for spiritual advancement.FOR MOST MEN, THIS VIVAH-YAJNA SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED EVEN BY PERSONS IN THE RENOUNCED ORDER OF LIFE. Sannyasis should never associate with women, but that does not mean that one who is in the lower stages of life, a young man, should not accept a wife in the marriage ceremony. All prescribed sacrifices are meant for achieving the Supreme Lord. Therefore, in the lower stages, they should not be given up. Similarly, charity is for the purification of the heart. If charity is given to suitable persons, as described previously, it leads one to advanced spiritual life." Also he gave instructions on how to lead a Krishna Conscious married life following the rules and regulations of the grhastha ashrama. In the Siksamrita there are so many letters from him showing his concern whenever the married couples were having problems with their life. How can we say then that Srila Prabhupada was not caring ? It is wrong to say that Srila Prabhupada did not teach according to the Vedas. I don’t have access to Vedabase otherwise I would have cited here many instances which show that Prabhupada was not against grhastha life . What he didn’t like however was grhamedhi life where no rules and regulations are followed. Srila Prabhupada created the gurukulas so that young devotees could take up Krishna Consciousness and perfect their lives. Even Lord Krishna went to the gurukula . So how can we say it is not Vedic? If it proved unsuccessful , can we blame Srila Prabhupada for that ? And finally we also understand that this life is finally meant for becoming free from attachment to the opposite sex and engaging more and more in Krishna’s service. That’s why 75% of the time (0-25 : brahmacharya, 50-75: vanaprastha, 75-100: sanyasa) of our life there is no sexual relationship . As a brahmachari one is to control lusty desires , as a vanaprastha one is to detach oneself from lusty desires and as a sanyasi one is meant to forget lusty desires and as a grihastha to regulate lusty desires. There is no ashrama which is meant for the cultivation of lust . So ultimately we have to become free from lust and this is what Prabhupada preached and this is the one of the purpose of varnashrama. We cannot blame him for any of our faults. Infact all those sanyasis and grhasthas have been very fortunate to render so much service to Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada’s intention was to make a person a pure devotee of Krishna . ( He writes in the preface to Bhagavad Gita : Even if one man becomes a pure devotee of Krishna we shall consider our attempt a success ) . So he gave this chance to everybody , but ultimately everybody has their own free will. Please correct me if I said anything wrong. Also forgive me if I have offended you in any way, as that is not my intention . I am very new to Krsna Consciousness but I have benefitted a lot from Srila Prabhupada’s books and his disciples, so I felt like replying. Hare Krsna, YS, Prashant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 1999 Report Share Posted October 22, 1999 Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Patita-Pavan Srila Prabhupada. HARE KRISHNA . I never met Srila Prabhupada in person , but all his disciples (grhastha or sanyasi ) I have met so far are really wonderful personalities who have a deep respect , love and affection for Srila Prabhupada and who have rendered so much service to him. None of them finds fault with Srila Prabhupada. Instead they say it was Srila Prabhupada’s love and his absorption in Krishna and the mission of his spiritual master that transformed their lives for good . I was in Alachua last Vyasa-Puja and there were many disciples of Srila Prabhupada who spoke on the occasion. I could clearly see that they had so much love for Srila Prabhupada. Infact some of them couldn’t hold back their tears as they spoke -- recalling their personal experiences with Srila Prabhupada and how much Srila Prabhupada loved and cared for his disciples. And sometimes it makes me wonder how these western people could have accepted Krishna Consciousness and the Vedic culture so seriously. I preach according to my own capacity but I know how difficult it is to even make a person understand the basics of Krishna Consciousness (especially in the western world )and here is Srila Prabhupada who has made thousands of devotees of Sri Krishna . It is said that unless one is empowered by Krishna one cannot spread the Krishna Consciousness movement. So Srila Prabhupada is not an ordinary person , He was an empowered representative of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who had just come to fulfill the Lord’s prophecy ( that His name would be chanted in every town and village) It would be very wrong to blame Srila Prabhupada who sacrificed so much by coming at an advanced age just to carry out the order of his spiritual master without any personal consideration. He came at an age of 70 with just US $8. He suffered 3 heart attacks on the sea and finally reached the US after spending nearly 35 days on the ship. After coming to the US , he had to intially live with people who were meat-eaters, then in the Bowery which was full of drunks and people taking drugs. He would personally cook prasadam and wash the utensils after the guests who had taken prasadam left . Above all, imagine going to preach in a place where people had no idea of Krishna and engaged in the most abominable sinful activities . Srila Prabhupada had practically no help or friends or money with him. Doesn't this show his deep faith and conviction in the Supreme Lord? These are just a few of the many things that come to my mind now . In fact his life is full of sacrifice and he was genuinely concerned about the welfare of others. If not why would he undergo so many hardships ? Although he could have comfortably lived in Vrindavana for the rest of his life , he underwent so many hardships just to enlighten us about the goal of life. How could we blame Srila Prabhupada ? It is just because of Srila Prabhupada’s books that so many people get a clear direction in life. We have been saved from committing the most abominable activities and thus going to hell. Instead of going to hell , we can now go back to Godhead , isn’t that great ? Imagine otherwise how much sinful the life of the people would have been. eg in the sastra it is said that if one eats beef one will be killed as many times as the number of hairs on the body of a cow. If it were not for Srila Prabhupada’s books who would have enlightened us about this ? (especially in the west where "beef-eating" is considered normal !) How can we blame Srila Prabhupada who pain-stakingly wrote so many books just to guide us in our journey Back to Godhead ? Instead shouldn’t we be grateful to him ? All those who helped Srila Prabhupada spread the Krsna Consciousness movement have done a wonderful service to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the acharyas of the Brahma-Madhva Sampradaya. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had predicted that His name would be chanted in every town and village, so all the disciples who helped Srila Prabhupada fulfill this prophecy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are very fortunate and whatever service they have done (in whatever capacity) is their permanent credit,(unless they start blaspheming Srila Prabhupada and the Vaishnavas) even if they were unable to keep up with their vows later on . How can so much service to a pure devotee go invain ? And Srila Prabhupada appreciated services from all classes of devotees , whether grihastha or sanyasis. Infact Prabhupada had initially sent some of his grihastha disciples to start a preaching center in London and when he heard of their success he made a remark that his grihastha disciples had done better than his sanyasi godbrothers. This is just one example to show that Prabhupada was appreciative of any service done to help him in fulfilling the desire of his spiritual master. There are many examples like this . Srila Prabhupada himself got so many of his disciples married . He writes in the Bhagavad Gita : (Purport to 18.5) "The yogis should perform acts for the advancement of human society. There are many purificatory processes for advancing a human being to spiritual life. The marriage ceremony, for example, is considered to be one of these sacrifices. It is called vivaha-yajna. Should a sannyasi, who is in the renounced order of life and who has given up his family relations, encourage the marriage ceremony? The Lord says here that any sacrifice which is meant for human welfare should never be given up. Vivaha-yajna, the marriage ceremony, is meant to regulate the human mind so that it may become peaceful for spiritual advancement.FOR MOST MEN, THIS VIVAH-YAJNA SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED EVEN BY PERSONS IN THE RENOUNCED ORDER OF LIFE. Sannyasis should never associate with women, but that does not mean that one who is in the lower stages of life, a young man, should not accept a wife in the marriage ceremony. All prescribed sacrifices are meant for achieving the Supreme Lord. Therefore, in the lower stages, they should not be given up. Similarly, charity is for the purification of the heart. If charity is given to suitable persons, as described previously, it leads one to advanced spiritual life." Also he gave instructions on how to lead a Krishna Conscious married life following the rules and regulations of the grhastha ashrama. In the Siksamrita there are so many letters from him showing his concern whenever the married couples were having problems with their life. How can we say then that Srila Prabhupada was not caring ? It is wrong to say that Srila Prabhupada did not teach according to the Vedas. I don’t have access to Vedabase otherwise I would have cited here many instances which show that Prabhupada was not against grhastha life . What he didn’t like however was grhamedhi life where no rules and regulations are followed. Srila Prabhupada created the gurukulas so that young devotees could take up Krishna Consciousness and perfect their lives. Even Lord Krishna went to the gurukula . So how can we say it is not Vedic? If it proved unsuccessful , can we blame Srila Prabhupada for that ? And finally we also understand that this life is finally meant for becoming free from attachment to the opposite sex and engaging more and more in Krishna’s service. That’s why 75% of the time (0-25 : brahmacharya, 50-75: vanaprastha, 75-100: sanyasa) of our life there is no sexual relationship . As a brahmachari one is to control lusty desires , as a vanaprastha one is to detach oneself from lusty desires and as a sanyasi one is meant to forget lusty desires and as a grihastha to regulate lusty desires. There is no ashrama which is meant for the cultivation of lust . So ultimately we have to become free from lust and this is what Prabhupada preached and this is the one of the purpose of varnashrama. We cannot blame him for any of our faults. Infact all those sanyasis and grhasthas have been very fortunate to render so much service to Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada’s intention was to make a person a pure devotee of Krishna . ( He writes in the preface to Bhagavad Gita : Even if one man becomes a pure devotee of Krishna we shall consider our attempt a success ) . So he gave this chance to everybody , but ultimately everybody has their own free will. Please correct me if I said anything wrong. Also forgive me if I have offended you in any way, as that is not my intention . I am very new to Krsna Consciousness but I have benefitted a lot from Srila Prabhupada’s books and his disciples, so I felt like replying. Hare Krsna, YS, Prashant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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