on loyalty

[Guest guest]

> > Thus the two statements cited by Harsi Prabhu above are CONTRADICTORY.

> > We know the first 1) is true but the second 2) is plainly FALSE.

>

> Maybe Bhakti Vikasha Swami, who was sending this text from Satsvarupa das

> Goswami to the Prabhupad saed conference would like to write something

> about this matter.

>

> ys Harsi das

 

I don't know what these two statements are so can't comment on them, and

probably wouldn't want to anyway. Lot of weird things on com these days.

[Guest guest]

>

> >PS: Anyone with Vedabase want to do a word check (faith* vs loyal*)? I

> >project that 100 to 1, if not closer to 1000 to 1, that Prabhupada talks

> >about remaining FAITHFUL, not LOYAL.

>

> I'm game, and here's what I got with the old public-domain DOS vesionfo

> the Bhaktivedanta Vedabase:

>

> loyal--7 matches; loyalty--3 matches, for a total of 10 matches.

>

> Faith--1,932 matches; faithful--461 matches; faithfulness--28 matches, for

> a total of 2,421 matches.

>

> Hmmm . . .

 

When Srila Prabhupada was with us personally, there were no Guru's falling

down and disciples loosing their faith (as such). I'm speaking about on a

massive scale. Previously a disciple would leave ISKCON and Srila

Prabupada's service (he termed that as blooping; find that in your

dictionaries or even Vedas)? It's not always so cut and dried as we might

like to imagine. Sometimes, Srila Prabhupada used a new expression to suit a

particular set of circumstances which he may not have previously encountered

(blooping, dovetailing).

 

Surely we have to careful not to become narrow and closed as to how Srila

Prabhupada taught his disciples to think and act. It's certainly not all

one, as he so aptly describes in his wonderful purports:

see SB 1.5.16 pp: The expert devotees also can discover novel ways and means

to convert the nondevotees in terms of time and circumstance. Devotional

Service is dynamic activity, and the expert devotees can find competant

means to inject it into the dull brains of the materialistic population...

 

ys, mkd

[Guest guest]

>

> Where is the question of even "demanding loyalty," unless the society is on

> the verge of some major catastrophy -- facing some sinister external threat,

> civil war or monstrous conspiracy? In such a situation where every

able-bodied

> person is called into duty and when the "house cannot remain divided against

> itself," we can understand the demand for loyalty. Even at that, loyalty

> cannot be taken for granted.

 

Which is some insight into how Kirtananada lasted so long. From the moment of

the FBI raid in jan 1987, the necessity to remain "loyal" against the attack

of

the Federal government, which had it been successful would have utterly

destroyed

New Vrindaban, with all cows inevitably being sent to slaughter, was

paramont.

This seige mentality persisted for almost 5 years. Those wondering why some

devotees stayed loyal to Kirtananada during that time need to understand that

background event. He was a part of the whole package of NV.

 

It was after that had some resolution that it was possible to make moves

towards

getting him removed.

 

>

[Guest guest]

>PS: Anyone with Vedabase want to do a word check (faith* vs loyal*)?

>I project that 100 to 1, if not closer to 1000 to 1, that Prabhupada talks

>about remaining FAITHFUL, not LOYAL.

 

>I'm game, and here's what I got with the old public-domain DOS vesionfo the

>Bhaktivedanta Vedabase:

>

>loyal--7 matches; loyalty--3 matches, for a total of 10 matches.

>

>Faith--1,932 matches; faithful--461 matches; faithfulness--28 matches, for

>a total of 2,421 matches.

>

>Hmmm . . .

>

>Your servant,

>Babhru das

 

There is a misconception that because the old DOS version of the

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase was bootlegged and unauthorizedly placed on the

Internet that it has somehow become public domain. This is not the case and

we would urge all devotees to purchase a bona fide copy from the

Bhaktivedanta Archives. It is an ongoing struggle to maintain the

Bhaktivedanta Archives and its preservation projects and serve the devotees.

It is only by your mercy and support that we can continue these efforts.

 

Your servants at the Bhaktivedanta Archives.

[Guest guest]

> There is a misconception that because the old DOS version of the

> Bhaktivedanta VedaBase was bootlegged and unauthorizedly placed on the

> Internet that it has somehow become public domain. This is not the case

> and we would urge all devotees to purchase a bona fide copy from the

> Bhaktivedanta Archives. It is an ongoing struggle to maintain the

> Bhaktivedanta Archives and its preservation projects and serve the

> devotees. It is only by your mercy and support that we can continue these

> efforts.

>

> Your servants at the Bhaktivedanta Archives.

 

 

I have to say that I find it funny that I gave 17 years of my life to BBT

and ISKCON, and I am not even allowed to read the words of the

founder Acarya of it all. The world is really lopsided.

After renouncing all my time and work for those institutions,

renouncing my chances to get a good job and earn money,

now I hear that without money, I am worthless and no better than

a thief. If you had a reasonable price on the words, even a poor

person, like me, could afford it. If I never worked for ISKCON and

BBT I would have had a well paid job, and could afford it. But now,

an ISKCON reject, what can I get? I am poor in the amount of money

I have, because I gave myself to the movement.

 

Sorry to say, but I think that you at the Bhaktivedanta Archives

are wrong in your policy. Completely wrong. Devotees have been

pointing out this to you for years. When will you listen?

 

No, I am not bitter. I just say as it is.

 

It is possible to work out a policy that would make devotees

happy, if you wanted to. Do you want to?

 

ys Prisni dasi.

[Guest guest]

Please accept my humble obeisances.

> But now,

> an ISKCON reject, what can I get? I am poor in the amount of money I have,

> because I gave myself to the movement.

I know this maybe does not touch directly the point you are making but I

hope you dont mind me sharing it here and now anyway.

 

It is indeed difficult to survive in the ordinary society after many years

in ISKCON.

It might take a lot of effort to establish reasonable living circumstances

when one starts with nothing, but in the same time it also allow us the

bliss of being given amazing gifts from Gods own hand.

 

When we left the temple, we started out with a car without heating. We

lived there for one cold week, a family of 6, driving here and there in

unending rain to find shelter before the winter. It seemed rather hopeless

and actually we cried our eyes out, when ofcourse we were not fighting and

accusing eachother.

Then we suddenly got a house 108m2 for rent with a garden. We could only

get it because we could move in immediately having nothing, and during the

years we have learned that we were very lucky, since it is practically

impossible to find even apartments around here, unless you are quite well to

do.

Then different devotees traveled through our house on their ways into the

world, leaving their furnitures behind, so we could simply chose and pick

whatever we wanted.

Srimati Tulasi devi appeared, soon accompanied by The Lord Himself. The

garden became full of flowers and recently we were even allowed to grow

someones land without paying anything.

 

Now other devoteefamilies have come to our area and a restaurent has

opened, we have nice Radio facilities, nice festivals, friendly dealings and

allthough poor and quite old too, we are all getting educated in some way or

other.

Krishna takes care! Please dont loose hope Prabhus, keep on fighting. I am

quite confident that ultimately there must be some plan behind it all

allthough it seem dark at times.

> Only dark clouds.

Syamasundara!

 

ys. Gm.d.d.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/1999 7:00:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Prsnigarbha.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes:

 

<> There is a misconception that because the old DOS version of the

>> Bhaktivedanta VedaBase was bootlegged and unauthorizedly placed on the

> > Internet that it has somehow become public domain. This is not the case

> > and we would urge all devotees to purchase a bona fide copy from the

> > Bhaktivedanta Archives. It is an ongoing struggle to maintain the

> > Bhaktivedanta Archives and its preservation projects and serve the

> > devotees. It is only by your mercy and support that we can continue these

> > efforts.

> >

> > Your servants at the Bhaktivedanta Archives.

 

 

> I have to say that I find it funny that I gave 17 years of my life to BBT

> and ISKCON, and I am not even allowed to read the words of the

> founder Acarya of it all. The world is really lopsided.

> After renouncing all my time and work for those institutions,

> renouncing my chances to get a good job and earn money,

> now I hear that without money, I am worthless and no better than

> a thief. If you had a reasonable price on the words, even a poor

> person, like me, could afford it. If I never worked for ISKCON and

> BBT I would have had a well paid job, and could afford it. But now,

> an ISKCON reject, what can I get? I am poor in the amount of money

> I have, because I gave myself to the movement.

>

> Sorry to say, but I think that you at the Bhaktivedanta Archives

> are wrong in your policy. Completely wrong. Devotees have been

> pointing out this to you for years. When will you listen?

>

> No, I am not bitter. I just say as it is.

>

> It is possible to work out a policy that would make devotees

> happy, if you wanted to. Do you want to?

>

> ys Prisni dasi.

> >>

 

Dear Prisni Dasi,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Thank you for your message. I know that we have differed on this issue in the

past and are likely to differ in the future. At the Bhaktivedanta Archives we

have always tried to present Srila Prabhupada's books and words in the best

way possible for an affordable price. We are not a BBT division that has

collectors out on the street, we have to survive on the good will of the

devotees and a modest annual BBT grant.

 

Please consider that Srila Prabhupada himself insisted that everyone, even

devotees buying the books should pay cash.

 

It is a fact that the books presented in the Bhaktivedanta VedaBase cost at

least five times the cost of the Bhaktivedanta VedaBase if you were to buy

them and that some of them, like the letters books, the original India

Bhagavatams, and others are out of print. Also because of the lack of demand,

the letters that were sent in to the Bhaktivedanta Archives after the

printing of the letters books will probably not be printed in book form in

our lifetime.

 

Further, for the next edition of the Bhaktivedanta VedaBase we will be

including all the text of the articles from Back to Godhead magazine from

1966 to date, many books from other authors like Forbidden Archeology,

Satyaraja Prabhu's books, more Krsna Institute books by Kusakratha Prabhu and

so on .

 

You are a computer person and you are aware that simply to stay current with

the technology and to stay with the changes in the Folio program we have to

buy the Folio upgrade and new computers simply to compile the program. We

have to maintain on staff a computer person who has the capability to adapt

the Folio program to our needs.

 

Further, everything has to be proofread.

 

The cost of all this is not insignificant. However, we are sensitive that

devotees may not be financially well situated and therefore we offer an

installment plan where one can buy the latest 4.11 version of the

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase for $25 per month with no interest. Many devotees have

taken advantage of this offer and have thanked us for this.

 

This is not our only project, of course. Apart from this we have to maintain

and preserve all the audio, all the transparencies and negatives in the photo

section, maintain the devotees to do this and maintain a suitable property to

house the collection itself.

 

We are always trying to make the devotees happy by these efforts. In return

we have to beg the mercy of the devotees to pay for all this. The karmis are

not going to pay. We are always open to creative ideas on how to fund all

this but at this point in time our current pricing structure is all we have.

 

For example we charge only $2.75 for tapes in the old tape ministry and $3.75

for the new ministry (the difference in price is because we had to purchase a

digital sound system costing well over $10,000 to clean up unacceptable tapes

and do the mastering). Srila Prabhupada lecture CDs are priced at $5.95 each.

Where can you find prices that low in the karmi world?

 

Please forgive any offence that we may commit. It is our honest endeavor to

present the words, the sound vibrations and the images of His Divine Grace to

as many people as possible.

 

Your humble servants at the Bhaktivedanta Archives