Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 "WWW: Lola (Devi Dasi) ACBSP (Vancouver - CAN)" wrote: > [Text 2764733 from COM] > > On 08 Nov 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote: > > > 6. In 1996, I learned that devotees at Saranagati Farm in Canada were > > accepting a $11,000 per year tax exemption in return for grazing beef > > cattle for slaughter on their land: > > > > I would like to thank Hare Krsna Dasi for all of her work in protecting cows. > I would also like to give some additional detail about this accusation against > Saranagati. The devotees at Saranagati did not want beef cattle on their > land. The cattle were present only because the 5 miles of fence needed to > keep them out was not there nor could the devotees at that time afford to > quickly construct it. The cattle wandered on to the land on their own. I > will inquire as to the status now in 1999 and let you know > > ys > Lola devi dasi Dear Lola Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thanks for offering to check into this. The difficulty in fencing out the animals was discussed when this issue originally arose. If I recall correctly, I believe that the cowherds on the COW conference appreciated the difficulty of the situation. The objection was that Saranagati was accepting a monetary equivalent for their support of the cow slaughter industry. It was felt that Srila Prabhupada would never have approved of such a practice. Hopefully, this practice of taking what amounts to a blood-money tax credit at Saranagati has now ended. If it has not yet ended, Saranagati will be able to see clearly that it is by no means alone in failure to meet minimun cow protection standards. It should simply take heart and work to rectify the situation. Hopefully, your GBC will provide the appropriate spiritual and legal guidance in this matter. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 Dear Prabhus, Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! The point still remains that 12 cows living under the protection of an ISKCON cow protection facility were slaughtered by an ISKCON authority and nothing has been forth coming as an Executive statement from the GBC. Can everyone now just start to forget this heinous act? Have they died in vain? What is going to be done? Nothing? There is some lack of responsibility here to be atoned for. As Hare Krsna dasi said, "Will there be any public acts of contrition for all this abuse? Or will you continue your mantra: "I'm not responsible. I knew nothing." We have put together a system of check and balances for ISKCON cow protection facilities to prevent such abuse from happening. As stated in the Cow Standards the GBC is to meet quarterly with cowherds, inspect cow protection facilities, and file a report with ISKCON's Minister of Cow Protection and Agriculture. The GBC may also appoint a monitor to do this service, but the GBC must visit the cowherds and facilities at least once a year. There was only one report from a GBC, there were two reports from head cowherds who had given their reports to the GBC but the GBC never sent them to us. No monitors were appointed. If these reports are done timely, (the monitor is doing his/her service, the GBC is reading the reports and properly visiting, the ministry is receiving reports), you have a check and balance system in place. Together then we can work to rectify the situation. But if there is no cooperation, no reports made, no monitors-then what to do? There are still 5 cows remaining at Murari. I spoke with Balavanta prabhu (who is one of the land trustees for Murari and very aware of the history of Murari over the last 25 years). He feels that in the last 8 to 10 years there has crept into Murari a consciousness of irresponsibility and disrespect for the cows. About 5 or 6 years ago a scheme was concocted to trade undesirable animals for animals which were considered by some residents to be more desirable. At that time Jayapataka Maharaja was the GBC and this scheme was brought to his attention as he was getting into a car departing his one day visit at the farm. My understanding is that he was caught off guard and said, "What does this mean, a soul for soul?" The scheme progressed and twelve so called undesirable animals were traded with a non devotee farmer for 12 so called desirable animals. Keep in mind that gving cows to a non-devotte farmer means the cows will be slaugheterd at some point. The point is these animals took birth at Murari under the shelter of Lord Chaitanya's sankirtan movement and because they were never trained and engaged in service they became undesirable. This is not the cows fault. It is a management shortcoming. There is a undercurrent of thought by some members of the community there that because these animals were part beef breed (neighbor's bulls over the fence) that they are not worth training or even having on the farm. Unfortunately Drumila was very close with these people and was infected with this mentally. Hence, 12 more cows were sent away for slaughter. The GBC and the residents of Murari have made arrangements for the remaining 13 cows remaining cows to be taken to New Talavan. Already 8 have been taken. Balavanta feels, and the Ministry agrees with him 100 %, that the 5 remaining cows should not be removed from Murari in order to begin the healing process of taking the responsibility for the innocent dependents under their care. The ministry is currently drawing up this proposal which will be presented at Murari at the next Board of Directors meeting November 14. And what about the 2 cows and 1 bull sold for breeding? It is the Ministry's recommendation that these animals be sought after and brought back to Murari. We pray they have not been slaughtered yet. Your servant, Balabhadra das ISKCON Minister for Cow Protection and Agriculture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 1999 Report Share Posted November 9, 1999 Dear Prabhus, Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! The point still remains that 12 cows living under the protection of an ISKCON cow protection facility were slaughtered by an ISKCON authority and nothing has been forth coming as an Executive statement from the GBC. Can everyone now just start to forget this heinous act? Have they died in vain? What is going to be done? Nothing? There is some lack of responsibility here to be atoned for. As Hare Krsna dasi said, "Will there be any public acts of contrition for all this abuse? Or will you continue your mantra: "I'm not responsible. I knew nothing." We have put together a system of check and balances for ISKCON cow protection facilities to prevent such abuse from happening. As stated in the Cow Standards the GBC is to meet quarterly with cowherds, inspect cow protection facilities, and file a report with ISKCON's Minister of Cow Protection and Agriculture. The GBC may also appoint a monitor to do this service, but the GBC must visit the cowherds and facilities at least once a year. There was only one report from a GBC, there were two reports from head cowherds who had given their reports to the GBC but the GBC never sent them to us. No monitors were appointed. If these reports are done timely, (the monitor is doing his/her service, the GBC is reading the reports and properly visiting, the ministry is receiving reports), you have a check and balance system in place. Together then we can work to rectify the situation. But if there is no cooperation, no reports made, no monitors-then what to do? There are still 5 cows remaining at Murari. I spoke with Balavanta prabhu (who is one of the land trustees for Murari and very aware of the history of Murari over the last 25 years). He feels that in the last 8 to 10 years there has crept into Murari a consciousness of irresponsibility and disrespect for the cows. About 5 or 6 years ago a scheme was concocted to trade undesirable animals for animals which were considered by some residents to be more desirable. At that time Jayapataka Maharaja was the GBC and this scheme was brought to his attention as he was getting into a car departing his one day visit at the farm. My understanding is that he was caught off guard and said, "What does this mean, a soul for soul?" The scheme progressed and twelve so called undesirable animals were traded with a non devotee farmer for 12 so called desirable animals. Keep in mind that gving cows to a non-devotte farmer means the cows will be slaugheterd at some point. The point is these animals took birth at Murari under the shelter of Lord Chaitanya's sankirtan movement and because they were never trained and engaged in service they became undesirable. This is not the cows fault. It is a management shortcoming. There is a undercurrent of thought by some members of the community there that because these animals were part beef breed (neighbor's bulls over the fence) that they are not worth training or even having on the farm. Unfortunately Drumila was very close with these people and was infected with this mentally. Hence, 12 more cows were sent away for slaughter. The GBC and the residents of Murari have made arrangements for the remaining 13 cows remaining cows to be taken to New Talavan. Already 8 have been taken. Balavanta feels, and the Ministry agrees with him 100 %, that the 5 remaining cows should not be removed from Murari in order to begin the healing process of taking the responsibility for the innocent dependents under their care. The ministry is currently drawing up this proposal which will be presented at Murari at the next Board of Directors meeting November 14. And what about the 2 cows and 1 bull sold for breeding? It is the Ministry's recommendation that these animals be sought after and brought back to Murari. We pray they have not been slaughtered yet. Your servant, Balabhadra das ISKCON Minister for Cow Protection and Agriculture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 I would say that this ISKCON was founded by Srila Prabhupada and in my experience it functions nicely if we are in the fire so to speak. So It would seem prdent to understand how to increase our attachement to the devotional process, not just consider it useless because some people find it not to their likeing. Please don't misunderstand I can comprehend that sometimes change comes as we more realize the instructions of Guru and Gouranga however in the case of devotees becoming independent in all aspects of our service, this is not always the way. I know in the case of a car or something if you own it you tend to take better care of it, but what if you should happen to truly understand that the car belongs to Krishna and gradually by the Grace of Guru and Gouranga one develops some attachment to pleasing Krishna. Then at that point the car would be better taken care of because we want to please Krishna. So the problem could be that we don't love Krishna enough. Not that the car belongs to ISKCON or me. So this I believe can work also although one doesn't have to exclude the other. One has to admit that at some point we have to have some type of communal effort. If you distribut Prasadam, someone has to own the van, the pots, and have a bank balance to pay for the gas. So If that someone happens to be an ISKCON temple president who is inspired to serve in this way, then does that not mean communism of a sort. Of course this che crap is for those who worship che. We worship Srila Prabhupada and therefore we see that he is pleased when we work cooperatively together. Actually everything is owned by the Brahmanas already so we have nothing to give to them. This is stated by Maharaj Prthu in the fourth canto. So everything ultimately belongs to Krishna. So where is the question of our owning something. But of course the point is what works to spread this Sankirtana movement and in relation to cow protection, it is not philosophical. Show me how you will take 150 cows and tell somebody here don't kill them, sell them, make sure you feed them nicely all at your own expense, and its ok if you take some milk for selling. It just isn't going to work. We spend many thousands of dollars each year maintaining the cows here. So my experience is most people who want just the independence wants the part of the cow that makes the milk, not the part that takes the feed. So does it matter whethe you call it communism or demoncrazy or whatever, if we are sold out to please Srila Prabhupada the burden of cow protection will overwhelm us and we will be dwelling in the same planet Drumilla is going to unless he receives the special mercy of the Lord which of course is possible because this is Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement. YS Dvibhuja Das COM: Harsi (das) HKS (Timisoara - RO) <Harsi.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Martin <laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net>; COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Thursday, November 11, 1999 11:20 AM Re: A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON >[Text 2771985 from COM] > >> >> Communism doesn't work. >> >> The communal aspect of doing things may have some limited application >> within a larger community, but doesn't work as the dominant way of >> organization. Ownership turns sand into gold, and vice versa. I am >> currently observing the systematic dismantling and destruction of New >> Vrindaban by the leadership that still functions on a communal paradigm. >> The 70s are over guys, Trotsky and Che are dead. > >Dvibhuja das wrote: > >> But Lrod Chaitanya and Srila Prabhupada are not. > >So would you say they where promoting Communism for their devotees as a >social and economical form of living? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 1999 Report Share Posted November 16, 1999 On 08 Nov 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote: > > > Hare Krsna dasi 8 Nov 1999 > > A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON > > ***ABSTRACT: A recent incident of cow abuse in ISKCON has led to focus on > the alleged perpetrator of the crime, but cow abuse in ISKCON has been > widespread and on-going. ISKCON's history of cow abuse should be analyzed > carefully, not simply to vilify certain individuals, but to examine how > organizational weaknesses lead to situations that foster abuse. ... > 3. In about 1993 or 1994, I heard that through neglect, an ox wandered > into the hay barn at Gita-nagari, fell partway through the floor boards > and was slowly electrocuted to death by the barn's electrical system. > Also around that time, I had my heart broken to learn that Burfi, our > handsome Brown Swiss lead ox at Gita-nagari for 12 years - who had even > pulled a cart in front of the White House - was left for a number of days > to die in a mud hole in the freezing winter weather. > ... Reformation of cow protection in our society is an extremely important task. I can't imagine that any follower of Srila Prabhupada could sell, give or whatever, cows for slaughter as described at Murari. I think I met that devotee years ago. I'm appalled. There is a sad legacy in ISKCON of failure, abuse and neglect in nearly all areas: Book distribution, Deity worship, protection of children and women, fund raising, and on and on. Having said that, the above quoted "fact" concerning the ox falling through the floor in Gita Nagari is a gross misrepresentation. This was pointed out a couple of years ago when the same author posted the same misinformation. I can only assume that the balance of the 650+ line post is of the same character. It is gossip on the National Inquirer/VNN standard. Maybe we need a Grocery Checkout Tabloid Conference. There is more than enough gossip in my remote corner of the world that I don't need it on a global level. This kind of lack of objectivity, poor reasoning and demagoguery is far more pervasive and possibly closer to the core of ISKCON's problems than the particular issue of the day. It certainly promotes apathy, as one doesn't know what to believe. The Vrindavan incident of late is another good example. Should I believe these reports? The male chauvinist boor version? Or the feminist G.I. Jane version? Should I still care? I actually prefer the Inquirer as I KNOW that story about the baby switched at birth with an alien is just crap. It doesn't pretend to be anything else. I'm interested in hearing about problems in our society and what is and/or what should be done about rectifying and atoning for the sins of the past. I just wish that these kinds of sensationalized misrepresentations would not dominate the discussions. Thank God I've seen enough good in our society to be able to put all the bad into perspective. The good has and still does exist. Some times I wonder if some of our COM commentators ever get out? I'm more or less useless, but even I go to the temple sometimes. We've had one great festival after another down here. I even got 3 loose ox back in their fields just a couple of days ago. One solution to the particular problem of cow protection is to give the Cow Protection Minister real power. Big title looks good on the business card but that's about it. How about giving the minister power to levy sanctions on neglectful GBC's, TP's or whoever. Real sanctions that could actually motivate. Your servant, Jiva Goswami das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 1999 Report Share Posted November 16, 1999 Martin wrote: > [Text 2772861 from COM] > > I would say that this ISKCON was founded by Srila Prabhupada and in my > experience it functions nicely if we are in the fire so to speak. Yes, it works great communally for some people for some time, but being "in the fire" is not easily sustainable for most devotees. > So It > would seem prdent to understand how to increase our attachement to the > devotional process, not just consider it useless because some people find it > not to their likeing. Here you seem to be equating devotional process with communalism. I don't think that is valid. Devotional service is not limited by socio economic paradigms. However, you will find little in sastra to support communalism and much to support private ownership, although not exactly in the sense Americans percieve ownership. Limited forms of communalism will always have their place, but not as an organizational vehicle for a greater mobilization of larger populations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 1999 Report Share Posted November 16, 1999 > On one hand you are crying Do I come accross as weepy? > the GBC has to > make sure that cows are being protected and on the other you are saying they > should be controlled by Grhasta. Where did I say that? I think you are trying to challenge me on a point I'm not making. > Please just give > me your vision of how to protect comws without communal cooperation. Through the establishment of Trusts with cows as the beneficiary and the Trustees acting as ksatriyas allocating resources. > You > can call it communism if you want but the cows have to be protected by those > who do it to please Krishna and unfortunately show me the person right now > who can do it alone. As I have never advocated that position(doing it alone), I feel little need to defend it. > Cow protection is not like that in reality. It is not profitable in the > mundane sense. I agree. New Vrindaban is certainly the example of abysmal failure where trying to make a profit from cows is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 1999 Report Share Posted November 16, 1999 These points are very pertinent. Legitimate criticism is good, but Mother Hare Krishna who we all give great respect for her work is becoming guilty of jumping the gun in the name of cow protection. She needs to understand that she represents ISKCOWP and is the flag bearer of cow protection in ISKCON, so she has to be more careful in her reporting of the situations that surely always develop when trying to protect Krishna's cows. This may be new ground but I think it time to address this issue of saying these things without legitemate substaniation of the the issue. Also the idea of giving some power to ISKCOWP. Possibly we could organize a membership where `there was some positive organiztional function whereby we could in a nonsecterain spirit function as an educational body as well as a protectorate as well. Then in this mood funds could be raised via this conference and perhaps this could be the beginning of a way to better serve Srila Prabhupada's mission of cow and ox utilization and protection. YS Dvibhuja Das WWW: Jiva Goswami (Dasa) SDG (Newnansville FL - USA) <JivaGo (AT) FDT (DOT) Net> COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; Bir Krishna Goswami <70324.1511 (AT) compuserve (DOT) com>; COM: Balavanta (das) ACBSP <Balavanta.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Kalakantha (das) ACBSP (Alachua - USA) <Kalakantha.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; Damon S Campbell <damoncampbell (AT) juno (DOT) com>; COM: Mukhya (dd) (SysOp) (Lund - S) <Mukhya (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Tirtharaj (das) TKG (Brisbane - AU) <Tirtharaj.TKG (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu <npetroff (AT) bowdoin (DOT) edu>; sawmilldirect (AT) webtv (DOT) net <sawmilldirect (AT) webtv (DOT) net>; Rennaissanceart (AT) webtv (DOT) net <Rennaissanceart (AT) webtv (DOT) net> Monday, November 15, 1999 7:50 PM A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON >[Text 2782095 from COM] > >On 08 Nov 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote: > >> >> >> Hare Krsna dasi 8 Nov 1999 >> >> A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON >> >> ***ABSTRACT: A recent incident of cow abuse in ISKCON has led to focus on >> the alleged perpetrator of the crime, but cow abuse in ISKCON has been >> widespread and on-going. ISKCON's history of cow abuse should be analyzed >> carefully, not simply to vilify certain individuals, but to examine how >> organizational weaknesses lead to situations that foster abuse. >.. > >> 3. In about 1993 or 1994, I heard that through neglect, an ox wandered >> into the hay barn at Gita-nagari, fell partway through the floor boards >> and was slowly electrocuted to death by the barn's electrical system. >> Also around that time, I had my heart broken to learn that Burfi, our >> handsome Brown Swiss lead ox at Gita-nagari for 12 years - who had even >> pulled a cart in front of the White House - was left for a number of days >> to die in a mud hole in the freezing winter weather. >> ... > > >Reformation of cow protection in our society is an extremely important task. I >can't imagine that any follower of Srila Prabhupada could sell, give or >whatever, cows for slaughter as described at Murari. I think I met that >devotee years ago. I'm appalled. There is a sad legacy in ISKCON of failure, >abuse and neglect in nearly all areas: Book distribution, Deity worship, >protection of children and women, fund raising, and on and on. > >Having said that, the above quoted "fact" concerning the ox falling through >the floor in Gita Nagari is a gross misrepresentation. This was pointed out a >couple of years ago when the same author posted the same misinformation. I can >only assume that the balance of the 650+ line post is of the same character. >It is gossip on the National Inquirer/VNN standard. Maybe we need a Grocery >Checkout Tabloid Conference. There is more than enough gossip in my remote >corner of the world that I don't need it on a global level. This kind of lack >of objectivity, poor reasoning and demagoguery is far more pervasive and >possibly closer to the core of ISKCON's problems than the particular issue of >the day. It certainly promotes apathy, as one doesn't know what to believe. >The Vrindavan incident of late is another good example. Should I believe these >reports? The male chauvinist boor version? Or the feminist G.I. Jane version? >Should I still care? I actually prefer the Inquirer as I KNOW that story about >the baby switched at birth with an alien is just crap. It doesn't pretend to >be anything else. > >I'm interested in hearing about problems in our society and what is and/or >what should be done about rectifying and atoning for the sins of the past. I >just wish that these kinds of sensationalized misrepresentations would not >dominate the discussions. Thank God I've seen enough good in our society to be >able to put all the bad into perspective. The good has and still does exist. >Some times I wonder if some of our COM commentators ever get out? I'm more or >less useless, but even I go to the temple sometimes. We've had one great >festival after another down here. I even got 3 loose ox back in their fields >just a couple of days ago. > >One solution to the particular problem of cow protection is to give the Cow >Protection Minister real power. Big title looks good on the business card but >that's about it. How about giving the minister power to levy sanctions on >neglectful GBC's, TP's or whoever. Real sanctions that could actually >motivate. > >Your servant, > >Jiva Goswami das > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 1999 Report Share Posted November 16, 1999 Again the argument is for cow protection and ox utilization, not pottery and even trunip growing. How one addresses the cow protection is different because of the logisitics and the sacradness of the animals. Therefore how do you propose to take care of the large numbers of cows we have now. Certainly this is not philosophical. I say we have to encourage communal support for our ISKCON and if you have some proposal of how to make the transition, then please put it forth as this would be a start in the right direction as you see it and perhaps all together we can start to improve Iskcon cow protection and ox utilization. YS Dvibhuja Das COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) <Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se> laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net <laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net>; COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Monday, November 15, 1999 7:50 PM Re: A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON >[Text 2782097 from COM] > > > >Martin wrote: > >> [Text 2772861 from COM] >> >> I would say that this ISKCON was founded by Srila Prabhupada and in my >> experience it functions nicely if we are in the fire so to speak. > >Yes, it works great communally for some people for some time, but being "in >the fire" is not easily sustainable for most devotees. > >> So It >> would seem prdent to understand how to increase our attachement to the >> devotional process, not just consider it useless because some people find it >> not to their likeing. > >Here you seem to be equating devotional process with communalism. I don't >think >that is valid. Devotional service is not limited by socio economic paradigms. >However, you will find little in sastra to support communalism and much to >support private ownership, although not exactly in the sense Americans >percieve >ownership. Limited forms of communalism will always have their place, but not >as an organizational vehicle for a greater mobilization of larger populations. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 > Therefore how > do you propose to take care of the large numbers of cows we have now. I keep feeling like you must not be reading my e mails because I have stated my position numerous times, yet you continue to place demand on me to explain. Apparently my powers of explanation are inadequate to communicate effectively with you. My proposals are contained in the Minimum Cow Standards that have been approved by the GBC. I can answer questions, if you were to read the document. Certainly the ideas are there in only bare bones fashion, but it is hard for me to fathom what it is you want? please read the Standards and then we could have some discussion on specific points, if they are not detailed enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 > > Just we should change the system. We need to enhance and expand the system. The stress in the Cow Standards is on small scale, with involvement of a broader range of folks than just specialized cowherds. This will manifest variously in various conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) wrote: > [Text 2784870 from COM] > > > > Martin wrote: > > > [Text 2783767 from COM] > > > > These points are very pertinent. Legitimate criticism is good, but Mother > > Hare Krishna who we all give great respect for her work is becoming guilty > > of jumping the gun in the name of cow protection. She needs to understand > > that she represents ISKCOWP > > I don't believe Mother Hare Krishna dasi has any direct connection with ISCOWP. Madhava Gosh prabhu is correct. I greatly admired the patient work that Chaya and Balabhadra are doing for the Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture -- and for ISCOWP (which is technically a separate entity), but I am not directly connected with them. And, it is even possible that they don't agree with my perspective or my methods in every instance. I certainly did not consult with them before posting my letters on cow slaughter at Murari or a history of cow abuse in ISKCON. That is my independent activity, and no one else should be held accountable for my personal actions. I still hope that by calling attention to widespread allegations of cow abuse in ISKCON, it will foster investigation, apology where warrented, rectification and improvement in our policies and actions concerning cow protection. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 Maybe we should just let this one go. I kind of forget what it is all about anyway. My main point was to the statement of Maharaj corcerning the solution to the problem of cow protection specifically the one at Murari was when we become privatized or something meaning that. So I just thought that was a mistaken approach because it means that there is no solution now. Just we should change the system. Didn't make any sense, but I didn't want to attack anyone specific on the point so I just kind of blabbered. Please forgive my lack of format or continuity. YS Dvibhuja Das I'll try to do better in the future COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) <Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se> laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net <laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net>; COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Tuesday, November 16, 1999 6:50 PM Re: A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON >[Text 2784886 from COM] > >> Therefore how >> do you propose to take care of the large numbers of cows we have now. > >I keep feeling like you must not be reading my e mails because I have stated my >position numerous times, yet you continue to place demand on me to explain. >Apparently my powers of explanation are inadequate to communicate effectively >with you. > >My proposals are contained in the Minimum Cow Standards that have been approved >by the GBC. I can answer questions, if you were to read the document. >Certainly the ideas are there in only bare bones fashion, but it is hard for >me >to fathom what it is you want? please read the Standards and then we could >have >some discussion on specific points, if they are not detailed enough. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 1999 Report Share Posted November 17, 1999 Maybe we should just let this one go. I kind of forget what it is all about anyway. My main point was to the statement of Maharaj corcerning the solution to the problem of cow protection specifically the one at Murari was when we become privatized or something meaning that. So I just thought that was a mistaken approach because it means that there is no solution now. Just we should change the system. Didn't make any sense, but I didn't want to attack anyone specific on the point so I just kind of blabbered. Please forgive my lack of format or continuity. YS Dvibhuja Das I'll try to do better in the future COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA) <Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se> laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net <laksmi (AT) datastar (DOT) net>; COM: Cow (Protection and related issues) <Cow (AT) bbt (DOT) se>; COM: Varnasrama development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Tuesday, November 16, 1999 6:50 PM Re: A History of Cow Abuse in ISKCON >[Text 2784886 from COM] > >> Therefore how >> do you propose to take care of the large numbers of cows we have now. > >I keep feeling like you must not be reading my e mails because I have stated my >position numerous times, yet you continue to place demand on me to explain. >Apparently my powers of explanation are inadequate to communicate effectively >with you. > >My proposals are contained in the Minimum Cow Standards that have been approved >by the GBC. I can answer questions, if you were to read the document. >Certainly the ideas are there in only bare bones fashion, but it is hard for >me >to fathom what it is you want? please read the Standards and then we could >have >some discussion on specific points, if they are not detailed enough. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.