Yep, Vedic India, still a whole lot better...

[Guest guest]

> >I would hope we can agree

> >that Srila Prabhupada most likely would have modified that statement

> >today to include only *those Indian men who are following a Vaisnava

> >lifestyle*.

>

> No, because there are many, many Indians who aren't Vaishnavas but still

> are quite upright in their moral character. (I thought you've been to

> India, didn't you see that?) For example, by far, in Gujarat, the biggest

> religious festival is Navratri, in which goddess Durga is worshipped by

> young girls (and everyone else participates too.) If you go to South

> India, there are many followers of Ayappa, Shiva, etc., besides

> Vaishnavas. (If you went to South India and didn't see an Ayappa bhakta,

> then definitely your contact with the locals was minimal, to the point of

> avoidance--almost like saying "I swam in the ocean but didn't get wet").

>

> And second of all, your propensity to speculate what Srila Prabhupada

> would have said is out of hand. Do you know Srila Prabhupada's heart to

> say something he never said?

>

> >I don't think anyone would argue that he would condone alcoholism, wife

> >beating and adultery, all of which are probably a larger part of Indian

> >society today than it was 20-30 years ago. Nor that he would want his

> >disciples to imitate those behaviors. It's an insult to Srila Prabhupada

> >to suggest anything else.

>

>

> Because you have not spent an extended time in India, associating with the

> society as it is, and not specifically its problems, you find it difficult

> to believe that, yes, even today, by far, most Indian men are very dutiful

> and good husbands to their wives. Since you don't have such extended

> experience with the Indian public, your superimposition of your baised,

> and stunted experiences on a society of which you know little are so much

> bunk.

>

> >So let's stop generalizing to all Indians in future postings and qualify

> >our use of them as role models to those who are behaving like true

> >Vaisnavas.

>

>

> Tell this to Srila Prabhupada, who said, "Still India, so

> fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And

> in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce." (May 14,

> 1975 Perth)

>

> >>Why do you think Srila Prabhupada was erroneous in his generalization?

> >

> >You are putting words in my mouth, dear son. I never said he was.

>

> Good, that means we can understand from you that in general (as per Srila

> Prabhupada's generalization and as opposed to the west) Indian men are

> dutiful husbands who can serve as role models for their western

> counterparts. And since Srila Prabhupada was talking about married

> couples (not simply men), that Indian women may also serve as role models

> for their western counterparts. Don't you agree?

 

Yesterday on the internet at www.cnn.com there was an article (which still

ought to be available... guess I should have saved & attached it here, that

says that most of the families in the USA are disfunctional... only 25% of

the families are "normal" in the sense that there are 2 parents, living

together without divorce, etc.

 

This was one of the lead articles.

 

And KK Prabhu... you've made a very good observation herein above about

respected Madhusudani Mataji...

 

> > And second of all, your propensity to speculate what Srila Prabhupada

> > would have said is out of hand. Do you know Srila Prabhupada's heart to

> > say something he never said?

 

I too find it bordering on the incredable to have to read these messages

from someone it seems never met Srila Prabhupada, and yet stating "matter of

factly" that "this is or is not" the "will of Srila Prabhupada". Especially

since I had the good fortune to see Srila Prabhupada in Bombay, Hyderabad,

Tirupati, Madras, Nellore, Wardha, Mayapur, and Vrindavan... and also had

the good fortune to fly with Srila Prabhupada from Bombay to Hyderabad. I

even had the good fortune to literally lift up Srila Prabhupada [upon his

order... no, not the "Final Order" :-)] from where he was showering rose

petals on the crowd gathered in the new Hyderabad temple...

 

And I did take the opportunity to discuss philosophy with Srila Prabhupada

on morning walks (some of which appear in the conversations books, others of

which do not)... and heard him lecturing to crowds of upto 10,000...

 

Oh well... A lot more could be written here... but... guess we should stick

to the point; Srila Prabhupada simply did not advocate independence nor

"equal rights" for women. And that's what the incident in Vrindavan

recently was all about. It's not a power trip; it's about how an ideal

society ought to function.

 

Like varnashram dharma; there are different "parts" to the social body.

Some lower, some higher; according to their occupations, which is to be

decided by their qualities. Still, the differentiations DO EXIST.

 

And they exist between man & woman. Men & women both have their functions

in the vedic social order. The remants of that rigid social order are still

on display here in India; not anywhere else. Ought we not learn from that

for our spiritual & material welfare?

 

What is the benefit of the western society where women are guaranteed "equal

rights"? Does western society offer more protection to the women than

Indian/vedic society? And if Indians are imitating and being influenced by

"western materialism" is that grounds for condemning traditional Hindu

culture & values; which Srila Prabhupada taught us.

 

At a lecture in Hyderabad in 1975, I heard Srila Prabhupada begging the

audience; "please don't give up your culture"?

 

What did he mean by that? Was it just a joke or a sham?

 

Most respectfully submitted,

 

VaiŠava d€sanud€s,

 

B€su Ghosh D€s