Yep, mayavad--they aren't liberated, but nonetheless want to give up

[Guest guest]

PAMHO AGTSP.

 

>> Now, within the context of our everyday society, using this as a marker

by

>> which to assess the spiritual status of individuals (non-female or

>> otherwise), what is the status of devotees in general (conditioned or

>> liberated)?

>

>"The arta and the

>artharthi, who approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead for relief from

>misery or for some money, are not sakama-bhaktas, although they appear to

>be. Being neophyte devotees, they are simply ignorant.

 

This does not address the question of whether or not any particular devotee

is actually liberated. If a devotee is liberated, how, then, is he

"ignorant"? Krishna-surya sama maya haya andhakara yahan krishna tahan nahi

mayar adhikar.

 

But nonetheless, accepting that this refers to someone liberated, and that

the mothers who created the Vrindavan disturbance would therefore be

considered liberated souls, then why would we not also consider the men as

liberated souls, and their actions also dictated from the supersoul? We

would have to accept that the men are also liberated souls, and that their

actions were as valid as those of the women devotees they were trying to

contain. Obviously, this conclusion that both parties were right (because

they are liberated) is not tenable.

 

Therefore, a devotee not being a sakama-bhakta does not imply that he (or

she) is liberated (at least liberated yet).

 

A passage from Srila Prabhupada's purport of Bhagavad-gita 7.16 sheds more

light on this:

 

"On the whole, when the distressed, the inquisitive, the seekers of

knowledge, and those who are in need of money are free from all material

desires, and when they fully understand that material remuneration has

nothing to do with spiritual improvement, they become pure devotees. As long

as such a purified stage is not attained, devotees in transcendental service

to the Lord are tainted with fruitive activities, the search for mundane

knowledge, etc. So one has to transcend all this before one can come to the

stage of pure devotional service."

 

So, it can be understood that these devotees (distressed, desirer of wealth,

the inquisitive, and the one in search of the truth) have material desires.

As long as they have material desires, they cannot be considered liberated:

 

brahma-bhuta prasannatma na socati na kanksati

sama sarvesu bhutesu mad bhaktim labhate para

 

"One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme

Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have

anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that

state, he attains pure devotional service unto Me." (BG 18.54)

 

Devotees who are not liberated (yet) are not exempt from performing their

prescribed duties.

 

Your servant, Krishna-kirti das