Guest guest Posted December 4, 1999 Report Share Posted December 4, 1999 > > Sometimes I really ask myself if Prabhupada wanted to introduce the > culture of renunciation of material things why he didn,t start monasterys > and many temples in India where real brahmacaris and sanyasis are residing > are a kind of monasteries, where those who wanted to follow this path > could do it without mixing with the oposite sex. The way he chose to > organise things in ISKCON are more a kind of mixing two cultures to fit > the needs of the individuels, indeed nothing vedic, or like Abhirama > prabhu whould say "having a vedic perspective." There is no question of mixing two cultures, because there is nothing western about men standing in front of the women in a church, there is nothing western about men and women living together in the same monastery (temple), there is nothing western about monks and nuns fighting in front of the altar. Such things are unheard of in the western, or budist, or muslim or any other culture. These things happen only in ISKCON. Western culture is that men and women live together in a families and on Sundays they go to a curch. They stay together in the curch or if they are separated, then men stand (sit) on one side and women on the other. For those who are renounciets there are monasteries, separated monasteries for men and separated monasteries for women. There is nothing western, or vedic, or indian, or budist or whatever, about renounciets (sannyasis) managing a society. Such things are unheard of. Renounciets have always been living outside of society so they didn't have to mix and fight with women who will be the first one in front of the altar. Actually, it is the women who belong to a society and not a renounciets, if we should say it clearly. It is renounciets who are supposed to live outside of the society and completely depend on God. So, the question is what is ISKCON supposed to be? Monastery or a society? What ISKCON is right now, that we all know - it is A BIG MESS. Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 1999 Report Share Posted December 4, 1999 > Sari's aren't Vedic my dear nephew, they're the eternal dress of the > spiritual realm..the Vedic culture means to move as far as possible to the > full spiritual identity and life of the eternal soul, on the mundane > plane. Sari (a Hindi word) acording to my dictionary, - a skillfully wraped garment of the indian lady, <sanskrit - sati. Srila Prabhupada is translating this word only once as meaning cloth, in the SB.9.9.7 in the vers: dharayisyati te vegam rudras tv atma saririnam yasminn otam idam protam visvam sativa tantusu ....sati--a cloth; iva--as; tantusu--in threads. "Like a cloth woven of threads extending for its length and breadth, this entire universe, in all its latitude and longitude, is situated under different potencies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Lord Siva is the incarnation of the Lord, and thus he represents the Supersoul in the embodied soul. He can sustain your forcefull waves on his head." (Ganga) Other times he translates sati as meaning chaste, chastity, faithfull woman, virtuous lady. Maybe this has also something to do with the woman wearing the sati or sari. In SB.8.8.41-46 the chapter about the apearance of Mohini-murti he translates the word, viraja ambara--very clean cloth and in the translation of the vers as: Her body was decorated with a clean sari. SB.8.9.16-17...usat-dukula--dressed with a very beautiful sari SB.8.12.18 ...dukula--by a sari Her hips were covered with a shining sari and ornamented with a belt. SB.8.12.21 ...dukulam--the sari. As she played with the ball, the sari covering Her body became loose. SB.10.9.3 ...ksauman--saffron and yellow mixed; vasah--mother Yasoda was wearing such a sari. Madhya lila 8.168 After her midday bath Radharani takes another bath in the nectar of bodily luster, and She puts on thr garment of shyness, which is exactly like a black silk sari. ....Thus there are three baths in different kinds of water, Radharani then puts on two dresses - a lower and upper dress, the upper dress is Her atachment for Krsna, and the lower dress is Her shyness. That lower portion is compared to a blackish silk garment or a bluish sari, and Her upper garment is pinkish. That pink garment is Her affection and attraction for Krsna. Room conversation with Prof. Cambridge. Bombay 18.9.1973 Prabhupada: We dont try to convert. Just like one gentlemen was asking "Why these ladies, girls, they are putting indian sari?" I never said that "you do that." But they are doing out of their own accord. So I never canvassed to become a Hindu, or like that, no, our propaganda is "Just become God conscious" Letter to Madhavalata dd. "It would be nicer if you can put on sari, you can learn it from......You must remain like a nice girl. The dress and appearance is social convention of society." > << How do you explain about "sari" or "saris" being mentioned in Srila > Prabhupada's books which are all dealing with events that took place long > time before Muslims even existed? > Could be a different kind of sari. I was told that the original sari was > worn with a tail in the back like a man's dhoti.> > Ys, Mahatma dasa, in the Topical Discussions conference. I had nothing to do this afternoon so I took the time to search the Vedabase a little bit, hope you enjoyed reading the references about sari, Krsna and Radharani and from Srila Prabhupada. Ys, Harsi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 1999 Report Share Posted December 5, 1999 At 9:02 AM -0500 12/4/99, Douglas Greenberg wrote: >[Text 2830335 from COM] > >Hare Krsna... > > Harsi prabhu, I'm wrong many times, yet I wonder if you'd take a second >look at your statement > >> " But what is vedic anyway, the other day I was >> reading for example that the culture of the woman wearing saris was >> introduced by the muslims in India, so another conception of something being >> vedic gone." > > Such a neat surgical amputation of a "seemingly Vedic custom", are you >really sure about your information? Then Srimati Radharani and the >asta-sakhi's >of Goloka Vrndavana are under "Muslim influence", in that they wear sari's? > Sari's aren't Vedic my dear nephew, they're the eternal dress of the >spiritual realm..the Vedic culture means to move as far as possible to the >full >spiritual identity and life of the eternal soul, on the mundane plane. ...I >suggest a little more hesitancy before making a flat statement like, "so >another >conception of something Vedic gone"...........as they say, "count to ten", >then >speak, something I'm still trying to perfect. > >your well wisher and uncle, >Dina Sharana d. Your sane comments are like fresh breezes in what is becoming a very inhospitable and parched ISKCON cultural atmosphere. Thanks. ys. JMd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 1999 Report Share Posted December 5, 1999 > Your sane comments are like fresh breezes in what is becoming a very > inhospitable and parched ISKCON cultural atmosphere. > > Thanks. > > ys. JMd Prayer of St-Francis Lord, make me an instrument of your Peace. where there is hatred, let me sow love where there is injury, pardon where there is doubt, faith where there is despair, hope where there is darkness, light where there is sadness, joy! O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love. For it is in giving that we receive, it is in pardoning that we are pardoned, and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 1999 Report Share Posted December 5, 1999 > Very nice, thank you Harsi prabhu....I printed it out and taped to my > desk,....is this not the mood of Sri Panca-tattva and Their followers? Yet > only by cleansing the heart does it become possible. > > Prayer of St-Francis > > Lord, make me an instrument of your Peace. > where there is hatred, let me sow love > where there is injury, pardon > where there is doubt, faith > where there is despair, hope > where there is darkness, light > where there is sadness, joy! > > O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek > to be consoled as to console; > to be understood as to understand; > to be loved as to love. > > For it is in giving that we receive, > it is in pardoning that we are pardoned, > and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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