Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 touchy, touchy -- I was only attempting a joke as well! Unfortunately it was true and not very funny. On 10 Dec 1999, Guru-Krsna Dasa wrote: > On 09 Dec 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > > > > "Behind every great man is a woman telling him he's wrong!" (author: some comedian whose name I no longer remember) > > > > > How about 'buzzing around every women trying to make an offering of 'external' significance is a pack of naysayers who claim it can't be done'? > > > > Actually, that doesn't apply only to woman, when you think about it. > > Geez, is the JOKES conference the only one where attempts at humor are > allowed? I thought that the word "comedian" above was sufficient to tip off the reader that the comedian's quoted words were meant as *humor*. > > OK, I know what to do: > > "Behind every great man is a woman telling him he's wrong!" (author: some comedian whose name I no longer remember) > > DISCLAIMER: The above quote ***should not be misconstrued!!!*** as misogynist pathology, but rather as a benign attempt at humor. > > --gkd& > .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 touchy, touchy -- I was only attempting a joke as well! Unfortunately it was true and not very funny. On 10 Dec 1999, Guru-Krsna Dasa wrote: > On 09 Dec 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > > > > "Behind every great man is a woman telling him he's wrong!" (author: some comedian whose name I no longer remember) > > > > > How about 'buzzing around every women trying to make an offering of 'external' significance is a pack of naysayers who claim it can't be done'? > > > > Actually, that doesn't apply only to woman, when you think about it. > > Geez, is the JOKES conference the only one where attempts at humor are > allowed? I thought that the word "comedian" above was sufficient to tip off the reader that the comedian's quoted words were meant as *humor*. > > OK, I know what to do: > > "Behind every great man is a woman telling him he's wrong!" (author: some comedian whose name I no longer remember) > > DISCLAIMER: The above quote ***should not be misconstrued!!!*** as misogynist pathology, but rather as a benign attempt at humor. > > --gkd& > .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 > To say some of these women have remained single to > this day is not proof that the brahmacarini asrama is not "artificial" nor > is it proof that Prabhupada wanted women in ISKCON to be trained as > brahmanas. Don't worry. Brahmacari ashram is also artificial. Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 > To say some of these women have remained single to > this day is not proof that the brahmacarini asrama is not "artificial" nor > is it proof that Prabhupada wanted women in ISKCON to be trained as > brahmanas. Don't worry. Brahmacari ashram is also artificial. Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 > But as I said on another post, even if we try to raise our children to the > ideal vedic standard, it may not completely work without a vedic social > system in place. In fact, it may backfire since they are surrounded by > antithetical views in western society. Often children raised in devout > religious families completely reject their parents religion because they > were given more of it than they wanted. Obvioiusly, we are not immune to > these problems. > > So when devotees talk of strictly adhereing to vedic principles while > living in the midst of a non vedic social system, I don't see how it can > be entirely possible unless they create a vedic village and do not mix > with the secular society.Because this was not the case, Prabhupada made > adjustments. Yet at the same time, he preached the vedic ideal. Now if any > devotees can show how to make the ideal work, hats off to them. And this > would be the stongest argument for their cae and cause. This is true! If we cannot listen to those who have the experience and grown up children. Lets just wait 20 years and see where we are all at then, with all the big talk. What is obvious right now, right here in the reality of our lifes, is that a illiterate young lady would not do very well, neither on the spiritual nor on the material side. She would suffer. Because she is not living in a society where she is protected no matter what. Any etnic family coming from India, Africa or whereever unto the west, know this. No matter how traditional they are. Thats why they also put their kids to school. Those who become allieniated by society often ends up as criminals in order to survive. Often they end up as belonging to neither there own tradition nor the modern society, not good enough for any of them. The sad thing is that they had no choice. It is our duty to train our children not only to our ideals, but also to the world they will have to face, and aknowledge their precare situation without looking down at them, because they need our support. Srila Prabhupadas father and mother raised a vaisnava that way. We all have to strugle, why do some assume that others are simply taking it light? I dont see any reason for anyone to make that strugle even harder for others by constantly putting them in the nose how unqualified they are as westerners, women or whatever. If that is an example of protection then I would rather stay without. But I know it is not. Because it is completely unrealistic. How do I know? I tried to train my children to a society which did not exist, myself. Your servant Gunamani d.d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 > But as I said on another post, even if we try to raise our children to the > ideal vedic standard, it may not completely work without a vedic social > system in place. In fact, it may backfire since they are surrounded by > antithetical views in western society. Often children raised in devout > religious families completely reject their parents religion because they > were given more of it than they wanted. Obvioiusly, we are not immune to > these problems. > > So when devotees talk of strictly adhereing to vedic principles while > living in the midst of a non vedic social system, I don't see how it can > be entirely possible unless they create a vedic village and do not mix > with the secular society.Because this was not the case, Prabhupada made > adjustments. Yet at the same time, he preached the vedic ideal. Now if any > devotees can show how to make the ideal work, hats off to them. And this > would be the stongest argument for their cae and cause. This is true! If we cannot listen to those who have the experience and grown up children. Lets just wait 20 years and see where we are all at then, with all the big talk. What is obvious right now, right here in the reality of our lifes, is that a illiterate young lady would not do very well, neither on the spiritual nor on the material side. She would suffer. Because she is not living in a society where she is protected no matter what. Any etnic family coming from India, Africa or whereever unto the west, know this. No matter how traditional they are. Thats why they also put their kids to school. Those who become allieniated by society often ends up as criminals in order to survive. Often they end up as belonging to neither there own tradition nor the modern society, not good enough for any of them. The sad thing is that they had no choice. It is our duty to train our children not only to our ideals, but also to the world they will have to face, and aknowledge their precare situation without looking down at them, because they need our support. Srila Prabhupadas father and mother raised a vaisnava that way. We all have to strugle, why do some assume that others are simply taking it light? I dont see any reason for anyone to make that strugle even harder for others by constantly putting them in the nose how unqualified they are as westerners, women or whatever. If that is an example of protection then I would rather stay without. But I know it is not. Because it is completely unrealistic. How do I know? I tried to train my children to a society which did not exist, myself. Your servant Gunamani d.d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 At 11:59 PM -0500 12/10/99, COM: Mahatma (das) ACBSP (Vrindavan - IN) wrote: >I think the problem is that Iskcon will always have women who want to join. >So will we allow them to join and be trained as devotees or will we say you >have to be married because this is your nature and living in the temple is >artificial? I don't suspect that most preachers would feel right doing this, >at least not in the West. Therefore we need women's asramas. >Within a vedic social structure things would be different. You mentioend that >Prabhupada said a brahmacarini asrama was artificial, but still he created it >because he wanted to give women shelter. Do you suppose today he would not >want to give them that shelter? Nobody has ever proposed to deny them shelter. >So when devotees talk of strictly adhereing to vedic principles while living >in the midst of a non vedic social system, I don't see how it can be >entirely possible unless they create a vedic village and do not mix with the >secular society.Because this was not the case, Prabhupada made adjustments. >Yet at the same time, he preached the vedic ideal. Now if any devotees can >show how to make the ideal work, hats off to them. And this would be the >stongest argument for their cae and cause. Yes. Prabhupada made adjustments but he always preached the highest; he never preached that it's ok to divorce and remarry, that it's ok for women to live with men in the temples etc. etc. Ys, Sdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 At 11:59 PM -0500 12/10/99, COM: Mahatma (das) ACBSP (Vrindavan - IN) wrote: >I think the problem is that Iskcon will always have women who want to join. >So will we allow them to join and be trained as devotees or will we say you >have to be married because this is your nature and living in the temple is >artificial? I don't suspect that most preachers would feel right doing this, >at least not in the West. Therefore we need women's asramas. >Within a vedic social structure things would be different. You mentioend that >Prabhupada said a brahmacarini asrama was artificial, but still he created it >because he wanted to give women shelter. Do you suppose today he would not >want to give them that shelter? Nobody has ever proposed to deny them shelter. >So when devotees talk of strictly adhereing to vedic principles while living >in the midst of a non vedic social system, I don't see how it can be >entirely possible unless they create a vedic village and do not mix with the >secular society.Because this was not the case, Prabhupada made adjustments. >Yet at the same time, he preached the vedic ideal. Now if any devotees can >show how to make the ideal work, hats off to them. And this would be the >stongest argument for their cae and cause. Yes. Prabhupada made adjustments but he always preached the highest; he never preached that it's ok to divorce and remarry, that it's ok for women to live with men in the temples etc. etc. Ys, Sdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 On 10 Dec 1999, Trivikrama Swami wrote: > > > > > > And in SP's own words, both in his first letters asking to start it, and in 1977, SP said that the brahmacarini ashram was artificial. So, where does Mahatma get his discoveries from? And, what sort of brahmacarini ashram is > > > > Dear Trivikrama Maharaja > > > > Please accept my respectfull obeisances > > The comment you where sending from Ameyatma prabhu apeared without any comment by you, does that mean that you support everything he said hearin fully? > > > > Your servant > > Harsi das > > Not necessarily. Just facilitating the debate. > Ys TS Hey, I can relate to that! ys, Sthita-dhi .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 On 10 Dec 1999, Trivikrama Swami wrote: > > > > > > And in SP's own words, both in his first letters asking to start it, and in 1977, SP said that the brahmacarini ashram was artificial. So, where does Mahatma get his discoveries from? And, what sort of brahmacarini ashram is > > > > Dear Trivikrama Maharaja > > > > Please accept my respectfull obeisances > > The comment you where sending from Ameyatma prabhu apeared without any comment by you, does that mean that you support everything he said hearin fully? > > > > Your servant > > Harsi das > > Not necessarily. Just facilitating the debate. > Ys TS Hey, I can relate to that! ys, Sthita-dhi .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 On 10 Dec 1999, Guru-Krsna Dasa wrote: > > > One problem we've found with brahmancarini ashramas for our daughters is that they seem to attract certain balding middle aged men with the fantasy of scoring a teenage wife. > > Interesting observation, prabhu. Perhaps you will provide more details for the assembled readers. > Out of respect for the author of the original comment that was posted, I won't. > >I wonder if it is better that certain woman stay at > > home, or that certain men stay at home. > > No need to wonder. It is certainly better for women stay at home, and it certainly also better if certain men can earn their livelihoods by staying at home. > > --gkd > I believe that occupation is sometimes called 'housewife'. ys, Sthita .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 On 10 Dec 1999, Guru-Krsna Dasa wrote: > > > One problem we've found with brahmancarini ashramas for our daughters is that they seem to attract certain balding middle aged men with the fantasy of scoring a teenage wife. > > Interesting observation, prabhu. Perhaps you will provide more details for the assembled readers. > Out of respect for the author of the original comment that was posted, I won't. > >I wonder if it is better that certain woman stay at > > home, or that certain men stay at home. > > No need to wonder. It is certainly better for women stay at home, and it certainly also better if certain men can earn their livelihoods by staying at home. > > --gkd > I believe that occupation is sometimes called 'housewife'. ys, Sthita .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 > > > >Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so.. > >"Behind every great man is a great woman" autor unknown > > Marie Curie (co-discovered radium), Amelia Erhardt (aviator), Clara > Barton (founded the American Red Cross) - or maybe they were really > men... > Margaret Thatcher is often held as one of the most significant world leaders responsible for the decline and fall of the former Soviet Union. Anyway, if someone has a talent that can be utilized for the benefit of others, that could very be something useful in Krsna's service as well. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 > > > >Madeline Albright, oops but she is just foreign minister or so.. > >"Behind every great man is a great woman" autor unknown > > Marie Curie (co-discovered radium), Amelia Erhardt (aviator), Clara > Barton (founded the American Red Cross) - or maybe they were really > men... > Margaret Thatcher is often held as one of the most significant world leaders responsible for the decline and fall of the former Soviet Union. Anyway, if someone has a talent that can be utilized for the benefit of others, that could very be something useful in Krsna's service as well. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 On 10 Dec 1999, Harsi das wrote: > > Queen Victoria was the longest queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. She was a moral woman who practiced virtue. Her death was the final event which ended her reign....... > > COMPILATION OF ACTUAL STUDENT GCSE ANSWERS IN THE UK Kinda makes our Gurukula system of education seem almost together! .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 On 10 Dec 1999, Harsi das wrote: > > Queen Victoria was the longest queen. She sat on a thorn for 63 years. She was a moral woman who practiced virtue. Her death was the final event which ended her reign....... > > COMPILATION OF ACTUAL STUDENT GCSE ANSWERS IN THE UK Kinda makes our Gurukula system of education seem almost together! .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 >It is certainly better for women stay at home, and it >certainly also better if certain men can earn their livelihoods by staying at >home. Until this happens, varnasrama (and homeschooling for daughters) will not start to happen. But first the men must provide finacially for their families (at home or outside the home) to facilitate this. Ys, Sdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 >It is certainly better for women stay at home, and it >certainly also better if certain men can earn their livelihoods by staying at >home. Until this happens, varnasrama (and homeschooling for daughters) will not start to happen. But first the men must provide finacially for their families (at home or outside the home) to facilitate this. Ys, Sdd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 > > Yes. Prabhupada made adjustments but he always preached the highest; he > never preached that it's ok to divorce and remarry, that it's ok for women > to live with men in the temples etc. etc. > I never heard that one before. I mean that he never preached that is Ok for women to live together with men in the temples. Why did he then put them together in the same temple? Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 1999 Report Share Posted December 11, 1999 > > Yes. Prabhupada made adjustments but he always preached the highest; he > never preached that it's ok to divorce and remarry, that it's ok for women > to live with men in the temples etc. etc. > I never heard that one before. I mean that he never preached that is Ok for women to live together with men in the temples. Why did he then put them together in the same temple? Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1999 Report Share Posted December 12, 1999 In a message dated 12/11/99 2:11:36 PM Central Standard Time, Sraddha.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: << Yes. Prabhupada made adjustments but he always preached the highest; he > never preached that it's ok to divorce and remarry, that it's ok for women > to live with men in the temples etc. etc. > >> There were cases in which women wanted to remarry and Prabhupada gave his ok if this was the only way they could stay in KC. We should always remember that despite whatever Prabhupada preached, he would bend the rules if that would help someone become more KC. Ys, Md Ys, Mahatma dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1999 Report Share Posted December 12, 1999 In a message dated 12/11/99 2:11:36 PM Central Standard Time, Sraddha.HKS (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: << Yes. Prabhupada made adjustments but he always preached the highest; he > never preached that it's ok to divorce and remarry, that it's ok for women > to live with men in the temples etc. etc. > >> There were cases in which women wanted to remarry and Prabhupada gave his ok if this was the only way they could stay in KC. We should always remember that despite whatever Prabhupada preached, he would bend the rules if that would help someone become more KC. Ys, Md Ys, Mahatma dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1999 Report Share Posted December 12, 1999 > Yes, it was his biology professor from the Scottish college and that > reflected the state of science at the time. Srila Prabhu once > supplied us with more current numbers pointing out that 64 oz is > actually *gigantic* and not found in any humans. Apparently, the > male brain size is closer to 46 oz and that of the female about 42 > oz, but as earlier pointed out here, a larger brain does not > necessarily equal greater intelligence. I think it can be said that if the men used their brains, they would be more intelligent. :-) But this can also be seen from a different viewpoint. From the point of view how men and women use their brains. The specialization that men often do, requies more brains to get it right. ys Prisni dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1999 Report Share Posted December 12, 1999 > Yes, it was his biology professor from the Scottish college and that > reflected the state of science at the time. Srila Prabhu once > supplied us with more current numbers pointing out that 64 oz is > actually *gigantic* and not found in any humans. Apparently, the > male brain size is closer to 46 oz and that of the female about 42 > oz, but as earlier pointed out here, a larger brain does not > necessarily equal greater intelligence. I think it can be said that if the men used their brains, they would be more intelligent. :-) But this can also be seen from a different viewpoint. From the point of view how men and women use their brains. The specialization that men often do, requies more brains to get it right. ys Prisni dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 1999 Report Share Posted December 13, 1999 > > > > > There was Indira Gandhi in Prabhupada's time. And what did he call her? A > whore. > > > > ys. JMd > > Yeah, that's all she was. I bet when he met her in private he explained to her > why she was nothing but a useless..... > > You know, Prabhupada could attract even boorish misoginists, he was so great! > > ys, > > Sthita Does anyone else note the irony that ISKCON got started because a woman gave Srila Prabhupada a free ride to America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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