how to train men in ISKCON

[Guest guest]

Guru-Krsna wrote:

 

>So we better change Srila Prabhupada's books--the lawbooks for the next 9.5K

>years, those purports which were "dictated by Krsna," every word of which was

>chosen carefully because "It is document." Otherwise, lusty men may seek

>multiple wives.

 

 

No we don't. Not at all. We just have to follow Prabhupada and

insist that each man takes *one* wife, following both the examples of

Srila Prabhupada himself, Lord Rama, many other exalted Vaisnavas and

of course Prabhupada's instructions to us. Very simple.

 

You seem obsessed with trying to figure out how to control women who

are not even your wives. As many devotees have already pointed out

previously on these forums, it's safer to be concerned about our own

spiritual lives, rather than trying to force, dictate or shame other

devotees into maintaining a standard that we can't even uphold

ourselves. Secondly, other participants in these discussions have

pointed out the relationship between men who have failed to protect

their wives and those wives subsequently having to stand up for

themselves. Third, both you and other GHQers have admitted that

Prabhupada was lenient with his disciples who were not born into

ISKCON. Finally, you also stated in several papers that we need to

start striving for a higher standard among our chidlren.

 

Given these observations and based on your own experiences in a

failed marriage, how do you suggest we train our young *boys* so that

they can adequately protect their future wives thus preventing them

from having to seek protection elsewhere and/or from having to stand

up for themselves? That could be a very interesting discussion with

immediate applicability for those of us raising sons.

 

>do you think that lusty men with only *1* wife haven't yet realized

>that there is *no shortage*

>of unmarried lusty women with whom to sport in extramarrital shenanigans?

 

Who knows what's going on in the minds of dirty old men? Maybe you

can get some of them to tell you directly, so we don't have to

speculate? Personally I'm not interested. I can think of about

50,000 more interesting and spiritually beneficial things on which to

meditate.

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/12/1999 5:30:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Madhusudani.Radha.JPS (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes:

 

<<

>do you think that lusty men with only *1* wife haven't yet realized

>that there is *no shortage*<<

 

Yes, this is the point, that they cannot stop looking at other women! They

certainly have *noticed* that there is no shortage of women. What they

haven't noticed is that there are no shortage of men to marry the women.

Also, how much they have noticed a shortage of Krishna Consciousness and have

picked up a book bag to go out preaching, well, that I doubt. Their mind is

on how many women are around.

 

>of unmarried lusty women<<

 

Here is another part of the problem. In this movement we have this

misunderstanding that woman are lustier than men. Notice, I say

*misunderstanding.* Even the nondevotees know that men want sex more than

women so if we are going to point out that women are lusty let us only do it

in the context that every human being has lust until they become a pure

devotee and that when it comes to devotee women who are employing sense

control (bhakti yoga), if men think these women are lusting after them, it is

only self flattery and often illusion. It is harder for men to control their

lusty desires than women, so lets not blatantly say *lusty women.* when the

crux of this is more often than not a weakness of men. Nondevotee women

complain that their husbands want sex more than they do. For that matter, so

do devotee women! Lets be realistic here.

 

And men may not realize it but women don't get married for sex. That is what

is taught in the brahmacari ashram. ("Feeling lusty? Get a wife." Terrible

reason for marriage - no wonder so many fail!) In the brahmacarini ashram

however, one is taught the opposite. Many women I have spoken to have become

VERY upset that after marriage the husband wanted sex. So lets look at who,

in general, has the biggest lust problem in 1999 kali-yuga.

 

>>with whom to sport in extramarrital shenanigans?<<

 

The fact that men go after extramarital shenanigans is merely further proof

that they have a larger problem with lust than women, as they such men have a

hard time remaining loyal and faithful to one woman, allowing their eyes to

wonder. The higher principal of marriage is to calm the lust in order to

think of Krishna more. If they are only marrying to look around at the

available number of women to them, than they are missing the point of Bhakti

yoga. A brahmacari gets married so he can STOP thinking of women and learn

how to take satisfaction in one wife. If he can't, the weakness is his, not

hers.

 

>> Who knows what's going on in the minds of dirty old men?<<

 

 

Exactly. Notice it is the *older* men of this movement who are so anxiously

running after, and strongly preaching in favor of polygamy. The young men

don't need to. <g> (Time older men take sanyasa or at least varnaprastha.)

 

>> Maybe you

can get some of them to tell you directly, so we don't have to

speculate? Personally I'm not interested. I can think of about

50,000 more interesting and spiritually beneficial things on which to

meditate.<<

 

I agree with that Madhusudani! Lets meditate on Krishna and get over the

bodily concepts!

 

YS,

Prtha dd

 

Ys,

Madhusudani dasi

>>

[Guest guest]

> >do you think that lusty men with only *1* wife haven't yet realized >that

> >there is *no shortage*<<

> >of unmarried lusty women<<

 

 

> I agree with that Madhusudani! Lets meditate on Krishna and get over the

> bodily concepts!

>

> YS,

> Prtha dd

 

 

 

Darn! Just when I thought the conversation actually was beginning to get

interesting.