Guest guest Posted December 12, 1999 Report Share Posted December 12, 1999 In a message dated 12/12/1999 11:20:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, Guru-Krsna.HDG (AT) bbt (DOT) se writes: > Well, those who want to follow that logic can do so, but as afollowers of > Srila Prabhupada perhaps it's better to follow *his* instructions; for > example: > > > "...However great a woman may be, she must be ready to carry out her > husband's orders and please him in all circumstances. Then her life will be > successful." (SB 9.3.10P) > > And that's only 2 sentences of a quite revolutionary purport. > > We have free will. We can use it to try to follow the advice of the acaryas > or we can use it otherwise. Isn't it? > > --gkd > > My goodness, you guys just don't give up. Maybe you shouldn't worry so much about whether the women are following Srila Prabhupada's instructions and concentrate on your own field of endeavor. Have you reached perfection yet? There must be some men in this community satisfied with their wives and their wives service to themselves and Krsna or we would have no couples at all. And the question remains, if those men are satisfied with their wives and the wives satisfied with the husbands, why do you have a continuing problem with it? Isn't the point of devotional service to attract Krsna? Isn't that a personal growth issue.You seem to spend your time pointing out to Krsna (as if he can't see) and the assembled devotees the flaws in the service of others and why it should be considered unsatisfactory. This was rarely, if ever Srila Prabhpada's mood. Can you actually be considering yourself on His platform with the potency to correct without discouraging? It appears more like petty bickering among children rather than leadership. The childhood adage still holds true....when you point out someone elses flaws, three fingers are point back at you. yhs, Kanti dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 1999 Report Share Posted December 12, 1999 On 12 Dec 1999, Kanti dd wrote: > > My goodness, you guys just don't give up. Maybe you shouldn't worry so much about whether the women are following Srila Prabhupada's instructions and concentrate on your own field of endeavor. Have you reached perfection yet? > In their next life they'll be born as women, serve their husbands nicely, and then go Back to Godhead. In this way, Krsna will fulfil all their Vedic desires. ys, Sthita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 1999 Report Share Posted December 13, 1999 > > Its a matter of understanding I guess, I may be also wrong in my > understanding of what Prabhupada is saying. > OK. I will explain what Prabhupada is saying. In the system of varnasrama dharma, marriages are made that way that a woman is always less qualified than a husband. This has to do with male and female natures. Female nature is to be submissive and male nature is to be appreciated. A woman can be easily submissive if her husband is more qualified, she would appreciate her husband. If a woman is more qualified than her husband she would have difficult time to be submissive and appreciate him. Female needs to be accepted in order to feel that she is loved. Male needs to be appreciated in order than he feels loved. When a woman appreciates her husband he accepts her and she feels loved. He feels appreciated and he feels loved, so the relationships works nicely. Now, if a woman is more qualified this breaks this kind of relationship. If she all the time has to explain things to her husband, because she is more intelligent, that breaks that smooth male-female relationship. That is why in the varnasrama system marriages are made that way that woman of higher varna doesn't marry a man from a lower varna. Those kind of marriages where woman is more qualified are called pratiloma and they are considered degraded, children born from this kind of marriages are called varna-sankara. You see, varna-sankara comes from the improper mixing of varnas in a marriage relationship. The thing is here that Srila Prabhupada is looking from above and he is saying that woman is always less inteligent. That's true in the system of varnasrama-dharma and any other system, were people have some knowledge of the male-female relationship. That a woman is always less inteligent doesn't mean that all women are all the time less inteligent than all the men (that we can realize ourselves). It means that in a marriage relationship woman is less inteligent than her husband. This kind of arrangement is made purposly to keep the male-female relationship smoothly running. I hope that helps. Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 1999 Report Share Posted December 14, 1999 "COM: Guru-Krsna (das) HDG (Alachua, FL - USA)" wrote: > "...However great a woman may be, she must be ready to carry out her > husband's orders and please him in all circumstances. Then her life will be > successful." (SB 9.3.10P) And one of the amazing things is that even women who are not devotees do it all the time. Even if they have husbands that beat, rape and torture them, still they stay with him. And after what I have heard from devotee wives, they are not doing it in a lesser degree. So what are you actually propagating? Only if you cannot satisfy your wife, and keep her happy, do you need to keep her by force. Otherwise the women's nature is to serve the husband and stay with him. She is doing it willingly, out of love, and does not need any scriptures to tell her that. That she even accepts torture and abuse, and still love her husband, proves how strong that nature is. But for you nature is apparently not enough. Why do you worry about women's perfection, by the way. How about your own, and men's perfection? If you qualify yourself for such a perfected woman, by Krsna's arrangement you will get one. Note that Srila Prabhupada's is speaking about perfection for women. What does he say about perfection for men? What is your own duty, to become perfect? Are you following your duty in your words trying to instruct all the word's women in how they should be? ys Prisni dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 1999 Report Share Posted December 14, 1999 "COM: Guru-Krsna (das) HDG (Alachua, FL - USA)" wrote: > "...However great a woman may be, she must be ready to carry out her > husband's orders and please him in all circumstances. Then her life will be > successful." (SB 9.3.10P) And one of the amazing things is that even women who are not devotees do it all the time. Even if they have husbands that beat, rape and torture them, still they stay with him. And after what I have heard from devotee wives, they are not doing it in a lesser degree. So what are you actually propagating? Only if you cannot satisfy your wife, and keep her happy, do you need to keep her by force. Otherwise the women's nature is to serve the husband and stay with him. She is doing it willingly, out of love, and does not need any scriptures to tell her that. That she even accepts torture and abuse, and still love her husband, proves how strong that nature is. But for you nature is apparently not enough. Why do you worry about women's perfection, by the way. How about your own, and men's perfection? If you qualify yourself for such a perfected woman, by Krsna's arrangement you will get one. Note that Srila Prabhupada's is speaking about perfection for women. What does he say about perfection for men? What is your own duty, to become perfect? Are you following your duty in your words trying to instruct all the word's women in how they should be? ys Prisni dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 > On that basis, when Srila Prabhupada says, "However great a woman may > be, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him in > all circumstances. Then her life will be successful" I take that as perfect > instruction for the kala-patra-desa in which we now happen to live. And what would the equivelent instruction for a man be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 > On that basis, when Srila Prabhupada says, "However great a woman may > be, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him in > all circumstances. Then her life will be successful" I take that as perfect > instruction for the kala-patra-desa in which we now happen to live. And what would the equivelent instruction for a man be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 On 17 Dec 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > On that basis, when Srila Prabhupada says, "However great a woman may > > be, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him in > > all circumstances. Then her life will be successful" I take that as perfect > > instruction for the kala-patra-desa in which we now happen to live. > > And what would the equivelent instruction for a man be? Men and women being perenially inherently nonequal, distinct, dissimilar, diverse, disparate, divergent, opposite, from Mars/from Venus, and above all *nonequivalent* (yet somehow complementary): There is no equivalent instruction for a man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 On 17 Dec 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > On that basis, when Srila Prabhupada says, "However great a woman may > > be, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him in > > all circumstances. Then her life will be successful" I take that as perfect > > instruction for the kala-patra-desa in which we now happen to live. > > And what would the equivelent instruction for a man be? Men and women being perenially inherently nonequal, distinct, dissimilar, diverse, disparate, divergent, opposite, from Mars/from Venus, and above all *nonequivalent* (yet somehow complementary): There is no equivalent instruction for a man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 "COM: Guru-Krsna (das) HDG (Alachua, FL - USA)" wrote: > [Text 2867073 from COM] > > On 17 Dec 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > > > On that basis, when Srila Prabhupada says, "However great a woman may > > > be, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him in > > > all circumstances. Then her life will be successful" I take that as > perfect > > > instruction for the kala-patra-desa in which we now happen to live. > > > > And what would the equivelent instruction for a man be? > > Men and women being perenially inherently nonequal, distinct, dissimilar, > diverse, disparate, divergent, opposite, from Mars/from Venus, and above > all *nonequivalent* (yet somehow complementary): > > There is no equivalent instruction for a man! > > Or a desire by men to not have to take up the responsibility of having an equivalent instruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 "COM: Guru-Krsna (das) HDG (Alachua, FL - USA)" wrote: > [Text 2867073 from COM] > > On 17 Dec 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > > > On that basis, when Srila Prabhupada says, "However great a woman may > > > be, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him in > > > all circumstances. Then her life will be successful" I take that as > perfect > > > instruction for the kala-patra-desa in which we now happen to live. > > > > And what would the equivelent instruction for a man be? > > Men and women being perenially inherently nonequal, distinct, dissimilar, > diverse, disparate, divergent, opposite, from Mars/from Venus, and above > all *nonequivalent* (yet somehow complementary): > > There is no equivalent instruction for a man! > > Or a desire by men to not have to take up the responsibility of having an equivalent instruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 > > On that basis, when Srila Prabhupada says, "However great a woman may > > be, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him > > in all circumstances. Then her life will be successful" I take that as > > perfect instruction for the kala-patra-desa in which we now happen to > > live. > > And what would the equivelent instruction for a man be? I think most men that have inferiority complexes and need to find someone "lower" than themselves do not ask such questions. It seems we should be much more concerned about our own duties as men. Why are these guys who are so worried about women in positions worried at all? If, as they say, women are not potent nor qualified, why are they worried? They shouldn't have to say anything at all if these women cannot become anything anyway. Maybe we could convince them to just stop talking about women completely and instead get them to talk about the unqualified men who are posing as "leaders" of this movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 > > On that basis, when Srila Prabhupada says, "However great a woman may > > be, she must be ready to carry out her husband's orders and please him > > in all circumstances. Then her life will be successful" I take that as > > perfect instruction for the kala-patra-desa in which we now happen to > > live. > > And what would the equivelent instruction for a man be? I think most men that have inferiority complexes and need to find someone "lower" than themselves do not ask such questions. It seems we should be much more concerned about our own duties as men. Why are these guys who are so worried about women in positions worried at all? If, as they say, women are not potent nor qualified, why are they worried? They shouldn't have to say anything at all if these women cannot become anything anyway. Maybe we could convince them to just stop talking about women completely and instead get them to talk about the unqualified men who are posing as "leaders" of this movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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