Guest guest Posted December 13, 1999 Report Share Posted December 13, 1999 >Practical experience has taught that incompetent authority figures will >seldom take counsel from junior devotees, if ever. [...] So, taking shelter >of Krishna is real intelligence and common >sense. After all this is the process of self-realization, therefore it is >said that the highest realization is to save yourself first. [...] > I beleive that the junior devotees best just get on with >their own purification and, as Prabhupada instructed, they are thus rightly >situated. What, precisely, is "taking shelter of Krsna" -- according to time, place, protagonists, antagonists, social and cultural status, spiritual realization, etc.? Of course the starting point in any lasting enterprise is to strive for self-awareness and to take care of one's needs. No one can give anything unless they have something. That's just the (right) starting point, though. >From Prabhupada's teachings as well as from the experience of many devotees and a wannabe devotee, I gather that ISKCON -- the whole set of Prabhupada followers, rather, regardless camps -- is not only a spiritual network but also a karmic network. And any network of people is characterized by unity in diversity, bhedabheda. I have observed, furthermore, that karmic networks function, or are designed by Yama and other cosmic managers (following Krsna's desires), according to the principle of homology (similarity: as you may know, Greek *homo-* is a cognate of Sanskrit *sama* and English *same*). Thus people with similar karmic background and similar karmic propensities are placed together -- i.e. they share a family, a group, a society, a varna, a country, a planet. And within a karmic network, since victims are also perpetrators and perpetrators are also victims, people will exchange roles as circumstances permit. Role performance is done "karmanaa, manasaa, giraa" (by action, mind, word). Disregarding for analytical purposes the spiritual network, which undoubtedly is also there, Prabhupada's followers form a karmic network. Every individual therein has their own samsaric evolution, karmic background, and consequently their own samsaric or karmic propensities. By homology, what one individual in the network does, could theoretically have been done by any other individual in the same network, given suitable circumstances. In other words, what senior devotees do, in their specific individual and collective circumstances, could theoretically have been done by juniors, had the juniors found themselves in the same circumstances. In conclusion, I tend to see events in ISKCON as a karmic movie, dream, omen one may watch for individual and collective awareness. Just as every time I do something (with actions, words, thoughts) I am realizing or enacting my karmic, samsaric propensities -- unless I was a pure devotee, which I am not -- so what Prabhupada's followers do could have also been done by me in the appropriate circumstances. I could have whipped (down to death or short of death) the brahmacaris in the Sri-Mayapura-dhama asram; I could have engaged in a gender-based boxing match in front of the Deities in Sri-Vrindavana-dhama; I could have raped children in gurukulas; I could have forced people to offer me obeisances, apologies, donations, living quarters. By Krsna's mercy, I did not actually do all that myself, but I keep watching the karmic movie, dream or omen, and keep telling myself "watch out!" So, again, what, precisely, is "taking shelter of Krsna" -- according to time, place, protagonists, antagonists, social and cultural status, spiritual realization, etc.? What is a non-senior devotee to do -- with actions, words, thoughts -- within the (spiritual and karmic) Prabhupada network? your servant, Kunti-Devi dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 1999 Report Share Posted December 13, 1999 >Practical experience has taught that incompetent authority figures will >seldom take counsel from junior devotees, if ever. [...] So, taking shelter >of Krishna is real intelligence and common >sense. After all this is the process of self-realization, therefore it is >said that the highest realization is to save yourself first. [...] > I beleive that the junior devotees best just get on with >their own purification and, as Prabhupada instructed, they are thus rightly >situated. What, precisely, is "taking shelter of Krsna" -- according to time, place, protagonists, antagonists, social and cultural status, spiritual realization, etc.? Of course the starting point in any lasting enterprise is to strive for self-awareness and to take care of one's needs. No one can give anything unless they have something. That's just the (right) starting point, though. >From Prabhupada's teachings as well as from the experience of many devotees and a wannabe devotee, I gather that ISKCON -- the whole set of Prabhupada followers, rather, regardless camps -- is not only a spiritual network but also a karmic network. And any network of people is characterized by unity in diversity, bhedabheda. I have observed, furthermore, that karmic networks function, or are designed by Yama and other cosmic managers (following Krsna's desires), according to the principle of homology (similarity: as you may know, Greek *homo-* is a cognate of Sanskrit *sama* and English *same*). Thus people with similar karmic background and similar karmic propensities are placed together -- i.e. they share a family, a group, a society, a varna, a country, a planet. And within a karmic network, since victims are also perpetrators and perpetrators are also victims, people will exchange roles as circumstances permit. Role performance is done "karmanaa, manasaa, giraa" (by action, mind, word). Disregarding for analytical purposes the spiritual network, which undoubtedly is also there, Prabhupada's followers form a karmic network. Every individual therein has their own samsaric evolution, karmic background, and consequently their own samsaric or karmic propensities. By homology, what one individual in the network does, could theoretically have been done by any other individual in the same network, given suitable circumstances. In other words, what senior devotees do, in their specific individual and collective circumstances, could theoretically have been done by juniors, had the juniors found themselves in the same circumstances. In conclusion, I tend to see events in ISKCON as a karmic movie, dream, omen one may watch for individual and collective awareness. Just as every time I do something (with actions, words, thoughts) I am realizing or enacting my karmic, samsaric propensities -- unless I was a pure devotee, which I am not -- so what Prabhupada's followers do could have also been done by me in the appropriate circumstances. I could have whipped (down to death or short of death) the brahmacaris in the Sri-Mayapura-dhama asram; I could have engaged in a gender-based boxing match in front of the Deities in Sri-Vrindavana-dhama; I could have raped children in gurukulas; I could have forced people to offer me obeisances, apologies, donations, living quarters. By Krsna's mercy, I did not actually do all that myself, but I keep watching the karmic movie, dream or omen, and keep telling myself "watch out!" So, again, what, precisely, is "taking shelter of Krsna" -- according to time, place, protagonists, antagonists, social and cultural status, spiritual realization, etc.? What is a non-senior devotee to do -- with actions, words, thoughts -- within the (spiritual and karmic) Prabhupada network? your servant, Kunti-Devi dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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