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[Guest guest]

Gunamani Dasi wrote:

Guru-Krsna Dasa wrote:

>> I humbly request anyone to kindly explain how this statement "The GBC will

>> not tolerate...preferential treatment given to male devotees in any form"

>> is in accord with the teachings of guru-sadhu-sastra.

 

>"One who is free from pride about his good birth, pious activities, exalted

varnasrama >position, and is free from bodily designations, and who serves

the Lord with humility >is known as a beloved devotee of the Lord

(Bhag.11.2.51)

 

And such beloved devotees of the Lord are fit to accept worship on His

behalf as sannyasis or spiritual masters, all of which class within ISKCON

at present are men. So my question was specifically meant to clarify this

point: Why will the GBC "not tolerate...preferential treatment given to male

devotees in any form," since *one form* of preferential treatement is that

due to the spiritual master, sannyasis, and even brahmanas?

 

Brahmanas and Vaisnavas should be accepted as earthly representatives of

Narayana. (SB 3.16.12P)

 

Of all classes of men, the brahmanas and the Vaisnavas should be given

special protection. They should be worshiped. (SB 3.16.23P)

 

If the authorities or the leaders of society do not give special respect to

the brahmanas and Vaisnavas and do not offer them not only sweet words but

all facilities, then the path of progress will be lost to human

civilization. (SB 3.16.23P)

 

Beyond that, of the five sectors of society to be protected, the woman class

is *not* actually the foremost:

 

The defenseless creatures, according to Brahma-samhita, are the cows,

brahmanas, women, children, and old men. Of these five, the brahmanas and

cows are especially mentioned in this verse because the Lord is always

anxious about the benefit of the brahmanas and the cows... (SB 3.16.10P)

 

>A mahabhagvata is one who is free from the conception of "this is mine and

this is for >others." He thinks, "Everything is for Krishna". He sees all

living being as equally >related to Krishna, and he is peaceful, being

filled with Krsna consciousness. >(Bhag.11.2.52)

 

Yes, Mataji, the cows, monkeys, hogs, and other creatures, as well as the

Vaisnavis, are equally related to Krsna. Why therefore is special treatment

given to Vaisnavis to occupy one-half of an ISKCON temple room? Why not

share that space equally with the female gender of other species also? Is

that what you mean to establish by the above quote?

 

>The learned devotee sees with equal vision the brahmana, the cow, the

elephant, the dog >and the outcaste. (Bhagavad gita 5.18)

 

Therefore, cows, elephants, and dogs should also be treated fairly and thus

granted equal space in every ISKCON temple. Is this correct, Mataji?

 

>If a brahmana has all twelve brahminical qualifications, but is not a

devotee and is >averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower

than a dogeater who is a >devotee, but who has dedicated everything - mind,

words, activities, life and wealth-to >the Supreme Lord Krishna. Such a

devotee is superior to a brahmana because a devotee >can purify his entire

family, whereas the brahmana who is not a devotee is bound to be >illusioned

by the false prestige of his position and thus cannot purify even himself.

>(Bhag.7.9.10)

 

>O Lord, how glorious are they whose tongues always chant Your holy name!

Even if born >in a family of dog-eaters, such persons are worshipable.

(Bhag. 3.33.7)

 

>Birth in a low family is no disqualification for the execution of

devotional service. >And the birth in a family of brahmanas is no

qualification.(Cc.Antya 4.66.67)

 

>For one who takes to pure devotional service, all the reactions of his past

sinful life >are burned to ashes. In this regard, the outcaste is equal to

the highly learned, who >also takes to this path;(Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya

3.11.12)

 

>Those who practice mystic yoga, who perform great austerities and accept

sannyasa, may >attain the sinless realms of Maharloka, Janaloka, Tapaloka,

and Satyaloka, but those >who practice bhakti-yoga, devotional service unto

Me, attain My abode. (Bhag.11.24.14)

 

Very nice quotes, of course, Mataji. But how do any of them specifically

relate to my question above?

 

>So far Devahuti is concerned, she is elder women but very nice and sober as

well as >qualified. Because she is the age of all your mothers she should be

treated very >respectfully. Nothing should be ordered to her but simply

suggested so that she may >work in her own way.(SPL to Jadurani, 14th

January, 1970)

 

This is also very nice. But if a sannyasi of contemporary age were also

residing in the same temple, should he not be given preferential treatment?

If not why not?

 

"In the varnasrama institution the sannyasi, or the person in the renounced

order of life, is considered to be the head or the spiritual master of all

the social statuses and orders. A brahmana is considered to be the spiritual

master of the three other sections of a society, namely, the ksatriyas, the

vaisyas and the sudras, but a sannyasi, who is on the top of the

institution, is considered to be the spiritual master of the brahmanas

also." (BG 16.1-3 purport)

 

Aren't we enjoined to give special treatment to the spiritual master, or are

we now forbidden by the GBC to do that if the spiritual master happens to be

male? That is my question. The sannyasi is to be offered special respect and

facilities because he is the spiritual master of society, but since he also

happens to be male, are we now forbidden to offer him special treatment?

 

>Our Krsna consciousness movement is based on complete fellow feeling and

love, but >there is a word maryada which means respect which should always

be offered to the >spiritual master and elderly members."(SPL to

Jayapataka,17th April,1970)

 

This was exactly the point of contention in Vrndavana which led to the GBC

Executive order, wasn't it? The order came as a result of the temple

management's desire to facilitate a somewhat preferential treatment of

sannyasis (spiritual masters), and reads in part: "the GBC will not

tolerate...preferential treatment given to male devotees in any form.Any

form" obviously includes the form in which preferential treatment was being

given to the sannyasis.

 

>Regarding lecturing by women devotees:I have informed you that in the

service of the >Lord there is no distinction of caste, or creed, colour or

sex. In the Bhagavad Gita, >the Lord especially mentions that even a woman

who has taken seriously is also destined >to reach Him. We require a person

who is in the knowledge of Krishna, that is the only >qualification of a

person speaking. It doesn´t matter what he is. (SPL >to Jayagovinda,8th

February,1968)

 

We accept that, Mataji.

 

>Either girl or boy devotees may deliver lecture if they choose to do. We

have no such >distinction of bodily designations, male or female. (SPL to

Syama dasi,21st >October,1968)

 

We accept that also, Mataji. But we are similarly bound to accept this:

 

Kapiladeva was a brahmacari, and his mother took lessons from Him. That is

the male prerogative. (TLK Chapter 5 page 43)

 

Here Kapiladeva in a brahmacari dress, and mother is taking lesson from the

son. Now, sometimes it is asked, "How the mother will take lesson from the

son?" That is the prerogative of the male. (Srimad-Bhgavatam 3.25.5-6

Bombay, November 5, 1974)

 

("Prerogative": "Exclusive or special right, power, or privilege;")

 

I wonder how you would explain the above. Do you think that the male

prerogative applies only to the biological mother?

 

>Regarding your question, yes a woman can certainly reach the perfectional

stage of >devotion to Krsna. And the gopis of Vrndavana are the best example

of this. They are >simple cowherd girls, and Lord Caitanya has praised their

worship of Lord Krishna as >the highest form of worship. Krishna

consciousness is transcendental to all such >mundane considerations as if

one´s body is male or female. This is the meaning of >spiritual:Krishna

consciousness is beyond the limited body idea."(SPL to Krsna devi, 2nd

November,1969)

 

Yes, the "gopis of Vrndavana are the best example of this." And the gopis

were simple village girls, unsophisticated, uneducated. There is no history

of the gopis leading temple kirtans, giving SB class, serving as temple

presidents, GBCs. It's good to know--isn't it?--that Vaisnavis can achieve

the highest platform of Krsna consciousness simply by following in the

footsteps of the gopis.

 

>First offense to the holy name: To blaspheme the devotees who have

dedicated their >lives for propagating the holy name of the Lord.

 

Neither do I recommend committing that offense, Mataji.

 

>It is recognized that the highest religious principle in human society is

devotional >service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, beginning with

the chanting of the holy >name of the Lord, nama-sankirtana.(Bhag. 6.3.22)"

 

Harinam sankirtan ki jaya!

 

--gkd