Part 2? In Hope Of Setting The Record Straight!!!

[Guest guest]

Jaya Tirtha Charan prabhu wrote:

 

> WHAT I SAID THAT SOME FOUND OBJECTIONABLE

>

> First, please allow me to say that I find it extremely distasteful to have

> to justify to others words that were written in private (for the

> receivers' eyes only) yet now being scrutinized by an unfriendly lynch

> mob. But who cares what I think? (the theme of the day) As an Internet

> user and not primarily on COM, I wrote many texts via Internet that would

> now give credence to my present statements but are not available on COM

> for the gossip tabloids. To really understand many of my comments, one

> would need to have seen the previous messages to the receiver and also the

> particular messages sent to me from some feminists, which directly

> prompted those remarks.

 

This "lynch mob" was "created" because many of us found the texts that have

been shown from the GHQ conferance to be very provoking, and many of the

words used by the members to be surprisingly condemning, especially

considering that many of the members of the GHQ are respected members of

ISKCON.

 

What surprised me especially, was that such a conferance was created which

had such an "anti-women-mood", after all the hardships we have let the

female members of our society go through. I personally am grateful to those

women who have dared to stand up against the abuse against women in ISKCON,

so that those of us who have fallen into the illusion to think that we are

all superior to anyone born in a women's body just because we took birth in

a man's body, could stand a chance to rectify our mistake.

 

You seem to feel unfairly treated, and you seem angry that you got "drawn

in" in this case, even if you did "nothing wrong". You also seem to think

that the texts presented from the GHQ conferance were more or less out of

context. It may be that your statements were not meant as bad as they came

through, that I can relate to. But it is a fact that they came through in a

very negative way, and that many took offense by your words. Maybe you could

send me the rest of the GHQ texts, so that I can see the context of your

texts better? That would be fair.

 

As the grhasta minister (I seem to remember that you are the grhasta

minister?), the words in your texts gave very negative signals to the

"fairness" we can expect from the grhasta ministry in regards to the

treatment women will get in ISKCON.

 

What seems the most surprising to me, is that you don't really feel sorry

for the offense so many devotees felt after your texts on the GHQ

conferance, you seem to only want to defend your position. It seems like

you, as the others on the conferance, have great problems in seeing what you

did wrong and it also seems like you don't feel like you owe anyone an

apology. That surprises me.

 

I will go on commenting on some of your points:

 

> NOW, THE BOTTOM LINE:

>

> If a mail service, or some of its staff or co-users, were to intercept

> other people's private mail, read it, and then PUBLICISE it, there would

> be quite a hue and cry, isn't it? But in our case, a person of no

> integrity ("Ardabuddhi das") did just that and thereby exposed you, the

> innocent public, to expressions of ideas between one person and another of

> similar thoughts and experience. In so doing, he/she violated all acts of

> privacy (of civil law and netiquette) simply to propagate the selfish ends

> of the feminist bloc. WE HAVE BEEN VIOLATED! (Yes, it can happen to males

> also!)

 

Yes it does. And it is up to all of us to judge whether we think it was

proper what "Ardhabuddhi das" did. I personally am very happy that these

texts were exposed, and for the discussion that followed, even if it has

been unpleasant at times. I have learned a lot from it. And I feel that the

end justified the means in regards to Ardhabuddhi posting this on VNN.

 

> Unfortunately, this is how such one-sided, materialistic philosophy works,

> and this is why it should not be accepted or condoned in ISKCON. We NEED

> spiritual ethics based on the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. We NEED a

> recognised process through which to present ideas, petitions, papers, and

> the like to the GBC--to assist in maintaining the purity of the society.

 

Some of us think that you guys were caught with your pants down while

planning a conspiracy to terminate the IWC by putting it under "your"

ministry, and by removing all women from leadership positions in ISKCON, as

well as trying to stop all women from giving lectures and leading kirtans.

This disqualifies you in my eyes as an authority, and all your quoting of

Srila Prabhupada does not save you from that.

 

If you do not understand that the women in ISKCON have been offer for the

abusive mentality of the men, then I think you should consider to resign as

the grhasta minister, and leave it to someone who is qualified through at

least caring for the women, not just fighting against them when they express

their disgust over the men's abusive mentality.

 

> I'm VERY upset in the way that WE have been treated in this whole matter.

> It will take some time for me to get over this one. The amazing thing is

> some I've heard are already saying that my crying hurt doesn't count.

> THANKS!!!

 

I am sorry, but I don't feel pity for any of the members of the GHQ

conferance in regards to what has happened. You engaged in improper

activities, and it was exposed. And this is not any longer tolrated in this

movement, "even" when such improper activities come from leading devotees.

 

> I'm sorry if some of you refuse to accept what I have to say, but what can

> I do? I would humbly suggest that we become more objective in our

> interactions with each other, so that my feelings of repulsion for certain

> individuals and the same feelings of repulsion that some have for me, may

> be understood for what they are and dealt with properly. Then, instead of

> my trying to force something on you, or vice versa, let us empathise and

> try to appreciate another's subjugation. Such subjugation, be it by those

> of us thinking we are male, or by those thinking they are female (or by

> their male supporters), is not required, nor will it unite us in the

> harmony required for working together cooperatively.

 

If you did not have the position you have, I would almost agree with you on

this one. But I strongly question the fact that we have a grhasta minister

who is so one-sided in regards to the Women's ministry, since I don't think

you represent tha majority of the devotees in ISKCON with your enimical mood

towards them.

 

> For the record I don't expect a formal apology, rather I trust that

> Krishna will give those of us who are responsible some appropriate

> punishment to help rectify words and our actions. Having said that I wish

> you ALL well.

 

I am still waiting for a formal apology from you and the others who took

part on the GHQ conferance. Not for myself, but for all the women who you

offended there.

 

> If you don't mind, those of you who want to send hate-mail AGAIN (or Even

> for the first time) need not bother--I won't read them or reply. When an

> unwelcome or unrequested "gift" is presented but its reception is

> rejected, it remains with the sender. I'm sorry if this fact causes

> further upset to anyone, for actually it is not meant to. However, I don't

> expect to make some happy ever; some never will be happy (even though

> possessing all the "toys" or facility or attention in the world).

 

If you don't want to responf to this text, that is up to you. I don't hate

you, I just don't accept your understanding as absolute on this issue, and I

dare to say my opinion.

 

> However, I hope to appeal to those who have studied Srila Prabhupada's

> books, are open-minded, and are faithful to his ISKCON. And in all

> sincerity I humbly apologise for my part to those whose devotional service

> has been disrupted in any way by any of this, as it was not my intention

> or doing.

 

The day you understand why a lot of women were offended by your statements,

and point out what you did wrong, showing that you regret it, I am sure that

your apology will be accepted.

 

Ys

Jkd