Little Mothers

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, COM: Madhusudani Radha (dd) JPS (Mill Valley - USA) wrote:

 

> [Text 2014972 from COM]

>

> At 1:42 -0800 1/14/99, COM: Mithila (das) PVS (London - GB) wrote:

>

> >Dear Srila das,

> >Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to zrila Prabhup*da.

> >

> >These are just a few of the quotes from zrila Prabhup*da on this subject. I

> >have more if you want them?

> >

> >Your servant, Mithila das.

>

> I'm not sure that simply providing quotes addresses Srila Prabhu's

> perceptions feelings at all. Thinking of and treating someone as mother

> has to mean something beyond just saying the word. Just calling someone

> "mother" doesn't mean you automatically treat them that way. And if you

> don't treat soemone as mother, he certainly has the right to question using

> the word too. I'm sure he already had all your quotes and more. lack of

> quotes was probably not the reason for his text.

>

> Taking this discussion a step further than labels: Can you men out there

> say *honestly* that you are able to treat every 5 year old female as if she

> were your mother?

>

> Before answering reflexively that you indeed do this (because Prabhupada

> told you to), please stop and think for a moment: What exactly does it

> entail to treat someone as a mother? Do you *really* extend this treatment

> to both 5 and 50 year old women? Really?

>

> I have to say that I have *never* seen such treatment of pre-pubescent

> girls by *any* grown men in my 26 years of coming to ISKCON temples. This

> doesn't mean that they have behaved inappropriately (i.e. in any overt or

> covert sexual way) around these little girls. What it has typically meant

> is that the men treated these girls more like daughters or nieces, rather

> than as mothers.

>

> In light of the big problems facing ISKCON such as child abuse, our lack of

> ability to attract temple devotees, the guru issue, lack of health

> insurance etc., I don't think this one is a huge issue that I want to spend

> much time or energy on.

>

> However, I have to question what I see as lack of a realistic assessment of

> what is actually going on and the reflexive "quote-attack" on a person who

> is at least willing to take an honest look at things. The use of

> quotes-as-a-weapon to silence dissent seems to be common in all the

> discussions of sensitive topics.

>

> Ys,

> Madhusudani dasi

 

 

Hare Krsna dasi comments,

 

First of all, I think it would set a slightly gentler tone to the

discussion if Mithila Prabhu had addressed Srila as "Srila Prabhu."

 

But, I think the quotes he presented are important.

 

Personally, I don't think there is anything really ludicrous about the

idea of seeing a five-year old as a "mother" if we can just be a little

more open about what Prabhupada means as "mother" with respect to a little

girl. Whether she must be addressed this way, I don't want to make a

battle about, because we don't have any examples (as far as I know) of

Prabhupada insisting that devotee men call little girls "mata."

 

But, as far as seeing little girls as "mother," even karmi men do this.

At least here in New England and in the Mid-West. It is not uncommon for

an older man, especially an older relative, to see a little girl taking

care of a doll or fussing about her brother and taking care of him in some

way, to make the following appreciative comment, "Well, now, you're quite

the little mother now, taking care of your brother like that."

 

So, he sees her as mother. His mother? That I can't say, but what he

appreciates are her motherly qualities. She has exhibitted those

qualities, however in-expert, and he is appreciating her caring attitude,

acknowledging her importance, and encouraging her to continue to develop

in that way. Formally, he's offering her some respect, some importance.

 

Some people may object that the man is leading her to some stereotypical

role. I don't know what to say about that.

 

But the thing is, we need a whole lot more love and a whole lot more

caring in our society. And the people who provide that love and that care

should be given a lot of respect and appreciation. At the risk of getting

shot down, I think, and I feel that Prabhupada agrees that women *in

general, perhaps not in every case* should be providing that love and that

care on a personal level. So let's encourage them from an early age: You

are providing care. I think you are a good person. I think you are an

important person. That's what to see a five-year old girl as mother

means.

 

And if we create loving, caring mothers like that, then the sons they will

raise will be loving and caring in their roles in society.

 

When I see different ISKCON sannyasis (most of them no longer sannyasis)

who come out with a very hateful attitude toward women, I feel guilty

about criticizing them. So many of them must have had such a hard time in

their relations with their own mothers. They did not get that love and

care from her when they should have. So when they get in a position of

power, they want to get even with all women. How different they might be

if they had had the completely loving relationship that Srila Prabhupada

had with his mother.

 

So, I don't think Mithila prabhu's use of quotes is off the mark here. I

think this is an important point. I think if the essence of our little

girls had been appreciated and valued in the way that Prabhupada is

suggesting, many of our gurukula problems would never have happened. And

if the little girls had been respected and valued, the little boys also

would have received much healthier treatment. It's something like cow

protection. If the cows and bulls are actually respected and valued in

society, then it ups the scale of respect and appreciation for everyone

else in the society as well.

 

But-- I do agree with your idea that we don't want to make this a

long-lasting discussion. There are other important issues to address.

 

your servant,

 

Hare Krsna dasi