Introducing varnasrama

[Guest guest]

On 21 Apr 1999, Samba das wrote:

 

 

> I am not sure if you missed the point of my text, but to reiterate, I agree

> that we have to do whatever it takes to start the process of varnasrama

> right now. Implement implies something that is ready for implementation,

> that all the work has been done in planning, and now it is time to

> implement. As Sthita Prabhu has alluded, varnasrama inherently consists of

> interwoven webs of social interaction, of very evolved ways of dealing with

> social problems. Daivi Varnasrama is to be introduced in the midst of an

> asuric varansrama system, which has its own demonic cultural ways and webs

> of relationships, built on sense gratification.

>

> Changing a persons cultural baggage, is often not an easy or speedy process.

 

I agree it's not easy, but there are quite a number of non-devotees right now

who are, overnight, making the commitment to live more self-sufficiently,

which is one step every individual devotee can take. May I make a suggestion?

Let's banish all talk of how difficult or slow the process is. It saps my

energy just thinking about it. Let's simply talk about HOW we can actually get

started right now. I vote for the idea of everybody 1) starting a small garden

and 2) forgetting about health insurance. At least among those I've spoken to,

people hang on to their soul-killing jobs more because they have health

insurance than for any other reason. It requires a huge leap of faith to

depend on Krsna as the healing herb for your health concerns, but our goal in

life is to depend on Krsna as our only shelter. If I get sick enough to go the

hospital, I expect everybody on this conference to take up a collection for

me, or else I'll just have to die at home. That to me is an important facet of

varnasrama dharma: we become financially interdependent.

 

 

 

> Also in order for daivi varnasrama systems to be introduced, people have to

> be convinced it is needed, and many in ISKCON are not convinced of this,

> because many of our people do not read the Bhagavatam, or others of

> Prabhupadas instructions often enough, and others who do, are not in the

> consciousness of noticing the varnasrama slant in his teachings.

>

 

Agreed. However, I'm sure that there are plenty, enough for a few villages

even, who are convinced but do nothing. Why, I don't know.

Mainly because of this conference, and from reading the works of Wendell

Berry, Gene Logsdon, M.G. Kains, J.C. Jenkins, John Jeavons, and magazines

like Mother Earth News and Countryside I became convinced that this is the

direction my life needed to take. Now I am taking action.

 

Actually, it was Prabhupada who convinced me that it *should* be done, and the

above-mentioned non-devotee writers that it *could* be done, and done well.

There are people in this country with little previous experience in farming

who are now making a very good living that way. According to Jeavons, there

are women in villages in India who not only grow their own families' food, but

who even get a little cash income from their land. But almost every time I've

mentioned that I want to become self-sufficient, I get this line: "It's very

hard."

 

Personally, I don't think it's any harder than working a "regular job." I hate

"regular jobs". I hate them so much I have vowed never to work another one

again. I am not going to become a commercial farmer (I don't think) but I have

an idea of how I can live comfortably and simply from the land, mostly by

getting rid of a lot of superficiality from my life. I am inviting friends to

join me.

 

 

 

>

> Whoever says they want VAD has

> > to be willing to make the sacrifices and commitment necessary, even if

> > it's just to grow a garden or to become an entrepeneur or whatever seems

> > most pressing to that person.

>

> Here in Mauritius my family are very keen to try to start varnasrama, and we

> are looking for land for this.

 

You are hurting yourself with words, Prabhu. Don't say "try". To "try"

implies failure. If you tell yourself you will do it, never mind for good or

for bad right now, but just that you will do it to the best of your ability,

and never give up, how can you not succeed? You say you are convinced about

VAD. Are you convinced enough to die for your conviction? That's really the

ultimate test. You may not have to face it, but if you aren't willing to face

that test, you will give up before a lesser one.

Prabhupada had so many brushes with death in his mission. His persistence

wasn't simply a show to make him look good in our eyes, it was a practical

example to follow.

 

 

>But we also know that we can do very little

> on our own.

 

 

 

 

Fine. Agreed. But with all of us doing "very little on our own" something

stupendous will result.

 

 

 

>Varanasrama is the sum of several families, or even a village or

> town.

 

Are there several families where you live? Can you organize a garden with

them, or grow your own garden and barter with them for goods or services that

they have?

 

 

 

>It is a social system, that requires all the members of society to add

> their contribution to before it can exist, as a holistic social body. One

> can obviously take up more simple ways of life individualy, as you suggest,

> and that should definitely be done, but for the actual varnasrama social

> system to occur, it needs a critical mass of people who can provide all the

> spiritual, cultural, social, and material needs.

 

 

A critical mass is comprised of individuals. I don't think you are

understanding my point, which is that we, as individuals, must commit

ourselves, as individuals, without waiting for leaders or for a critical mass

to be interested. Granted, I cannot be a village of one. But if I live as

self-sufficiently as possible, as happily as possible, I will attract others

to do the same, and before you know it a village will grow up around me.

 

As for cultural, material, and spiritual needs, you don't need masses of

people, that's against the principle of plain living. The more you simplify

your life, the less you are dependent on everything except what you need just

to keep body and soul together.

 

 

I've learned that in salesmanship, you not only have to convince your prospect

that the product is good, you have to persuade him that he wants it, enough to

take out his wallet and pay you for it and be happy about what he's getting

for his money. Simply saying Prabhupada says that VAD is good for us is not

enough--we have to show that it is. When I read stories of homesteaders and

how happy they are in their lives, *hard* though they may be, I am persuaded

to do the same. Prabhupada never had the chance to just sit in one place like

NV or Gita-nagari and give the practical example, he left that to us.

 

> >

> > It seems though that if one person could spread the monumental philosophy

> > of KC around the world in one lifetime, a whole society of that person's

> > followers (and it certainly matters if they're following and not just

> > idolizing their leader), or even just a few of them, or even just ONE of

> > them, could marshall the same faith, accomplishing what is a comparatively

> > easier goal in the same amount of time. Empowerment comes from surrender,

> > from commitment, in the face of all obstacles.

>

> I personaly feel the reason varnasrama has not been embraced by the society,

> and especialy pushed by the leaders, is because it requires a push towards

> simple living, and the real surrrender that implies. Most of our people are

> not ready to give up their comfortable city apartments, where they can get

> international produce just around the corner, jump into their AC car, and

> generaly take advantage of the results of ugrakarmic activity, provided by

> others forced by economic conditions to slave in factories, or drive long

> distance trucks.

 

 

Bingo, prabhu. We would rather be comfortable slaves to the ugra-karmic

society than industrious free men. We chase after money (and it costs money to

make money) and give up our lives in the chase. We don't realize that whatever

is easy and convenient now we will have to pay for dearly later. We're too

high class to get our hands dirty.

 

 

> > There's room for all kinds of activities, it's simply a matter of what the

> > society chooses to focus on.

 

 

> Certainly, I suggested that we focus on varnasrama as opposed to massive

> praching, simply because there are already millions of books out there,

> describing an ideal varnasrama society of simple living and high thinking,

> but not even one active varnasrama community anywhere in Srila Prabhupadas

> ISKCON. Shouldnt that now be the priority?

 

 

 

Is there one devotee even growing 75% of his own food? I would consider that

enough "critical mass". I've seen Gosh's garden and home, it's simply

gorgeous. I think we should start giving out yearly awards to devotees who

come closest to exemplifying the varnasrama principle. The prize would be a

year's supply of cow dung. I vote for Gosh this year.

 

 

> I agree that the preaching should

> still go on, but let the society focus on something we have ignored, but

> which was central to Srila Prabhupadas teaching.

>

> As Prabhupada once said, "We have enough

> > devotees, it's time to boil the milk." Of course, it's possible that the

> > shrinking temple population is a sign of milk being reduced as it's being

> > boiled, resulting in a sweeter, more concentrated and devoted temple

> > population.

>

> I dont think so. Prabhupada's suggestion to boil down the milk, meant to

> implement the training courses, of bhakti Sastri etc, along with his

> previous orders to start varnasrama. Training in most ISKCON centers is

> almos nill.

 

 

It's almost nil, but at least it's being done. I have the privilege to know

several young people, including a girl who was only 19 at the time, who have

received the bhakti-sastri degree. Some haven't even gotten initiated yet. The

program is basically run by one young man.

 

 

 

>It does not take much to see that the dwindling temple

> populations are due to the fact that many devotees are seeking a more loving

> spiritual life, and are running off to other groups becasue they think they

> can get that there. If only we could provide a more loving caring and

> nurturing environment. Varnasrama could give us that.

 

 

 

Whenever I hear things like this, I wonder what is wrong with me. I joined

this movement because of two people. One was a boy I fell in love with, and

the other a girl who became my best friend. There were a lot of people who

hurt me, including my best friend and my beloved (who is no longer my beloved,

but a very good friend to me and my husband), but I never once felt like "the

movement" was unloving. There was always someone who was kind to

me--bramacaris, grhastas, sannyasis, men, women, children and cows--because I

looked for such people inside Prabhupada's movement and not elsewhere. I

couldn't give a damn what varna or asrama they were in.

 

 

> I want varnasrama now also, and we can start. But for us to have the full

> thing with all the cultural activity, (drama, dance, the arts, etc etc) the

> networks.

 

 

Varnasrama is a system of specialization, but it is not one of

departmentalization. We don't need a village full of experts to get the ball

rolling, we can do a lot of things ourselves until the real masters of the

crafts get wind of our noble efforts, become attracted, and beg to live with

us. You know our Guru Maharaja is not a technically expert artist, but he

draws for his own satisfaction and self-expression, as an offering to Krsna,

and his pieces are very enlivening. We are not prohibited from doing likewise

in various other fields.

 

 

Vaisnava ettiquette enshrined in our hearts, independant Brahmins,

> land holding ksatrias, etc. That is going to take a long time.

>

> YS Sd

 

 

Brahmanas. A brahmana is basically a teacher, and the rule is that he never

accepts a paycheck, except as pure devotional service (as when Satsvarupa

Maharaja was ordered to by Prabhupada). He can act as a vaisya in an

emergency, or I suppose even as a ksatriya. And yet I have heard that the main

focus in helping the second generation youth is to prepare them for jobs.

Jobs. It literally makes me feel ill to think of it. First they get abused in

gurukula, and then we help them get entangled in the rat race. We are not

willing, as a society of (mostly) brahmanas, to get dirt and cowdung under our

nails, if only to set an example to the rest of the world, but we are willing

to sacrifice our independence and our position as real leaders for a lousy

paycheck.

 

I have been to rural devotee communities where the children are given all

kinds of training (mostly so they can get good jobs), but they know little, if

anything, about how to take care of cows or cultivate land. I have never seen

devotee children taking care of cows, as our God did, as a regular feature of

their childhood training. If we don't do these things ouselves first, just to

show how it's done, that it can be done, how will the children, "our future

hope" as you put it, ever learn it themselves?

 

Ys,

Tulasi-priya dasi