Initiation (?)

[Guest guest]

>

> This is where it is important to apply proper etiquette. I dont know

> anything about Narayana Maharaja nowadays. I did meet him a few times in

> the early 90's, and then he was considered in ISKCON to be a very elevated

> sadhu, and I was certainly very impressed with him. Now there is so much

> propaganda, and I wonder if we are using NATO's spin doctors. If the

> propaganda is true, then watch out, I don't know.

 

I guess I got to meet him myself.

 

 

>

> But my point (as I keep saying) is not to look outside. IN the mission of

> Srila Prabhupada, we are his (ISKCON's) loyal followers, we dont go

> outside.

 

Oh, why not?

How many more years/decades one got to be Prabhupada's "loyal

follower" in Prabhupada's mission, in order to get even the access

to sabdha-brahma in his books?

 

What's the use then? The only way is to secure an acarya for

guru, why then restrict for "inside" only? Isn't that the

Principle (find and uttama and surrender to him) is what counts only?

If it haven't work in ISCKON in 20 years, let's then not waste our

remaining precious time.

 

Bhaktissidhanta said in Harmonist, "Hear from a sadhu, uttama-bhakta".

Why modify now his words, restricting them on "inside" of Prabhupada's

mission only? We listen to Bhaktisiddhanta, don't we? If Narayana

Maharaja (or anybody in this Universe) can offer us the explanation of

Prabhupada's works, then that's it.

 

You said:

"To me it seems obvious that you can interchange in that harmonist

article, Bhaktivinoda with Prabhupada, as the principle he talks

about is that of *serving* a bhagavat bhakta, as opposed to *exclusive*

empirical study of his works."

 

Now you are also modifying Bhaktisiddhanta's words in that article

to suit some another considerations. You are placing some restrictions

on the application of the Principle. Not simply some "interchange"

of names will really do.

 

 

 

> What we should do (I feel) is pray for the Lord to manifest a

> pure devotee to help. Prabhupada instructs us in his books, everywhere, to

> approach a spiritual master, and render service unto him. So we have to

> look for a real and genuine spiritual master who can take us home. If some

> individual wants to settle for a Kanistha, or a Madhyama, its up to them,

> but if they want an Uttama Adhikari spiritual master, and they cant find

> one in our society, then there is only one thing to do, and that is pray

> with all their heart, and if they are really sincere, Lord Krsna will

> manifest a guru for them. He says he will do it, and he will. They might

> already be existing here in ISKCON, we are just not looking.

>

 

 

To me, it makes now sense that ISKCON devotees are going to Narayana

Maharaja. It didn't before, but you heplped me to understand.

It turns out that all what counts is to get an uttama-adhikari for

a Guru. Those who went out, understood the point - the "Principle."

 

Then it would be at least fair to stop criticasing them for trying

to save their lifes, trying to provide an acarya for guru. In

ISKCON it doesn't work, and the loyality to ISCKON doesn't pay

itself back - even the books of Prabhupada remain locked to them,

unless they get an uttama to unlock them.

 

 

 

> Why would you be arguing with me, if it was not the case that no one is

> telling us to seek an Uttama Adhikary.

 

I believed that Srila Prabhupada's books did not have to be necessarily

heard from an another uttama-adikhari in order to be understood

properly by his "loyal followers". That Srila Prabhupada could be

pleased by the service of his "loyal followers" even if they got

no uttama-adhikari as their guru. That Prabhupada could give them his

mercy anyway. That's why I argued. I tried to "save" my 14 years

of life.

 

 

> This whole issue has arisen here

> because a prominent guru who everyone thought was a pure devotee (well not

> everyone) has fallen. Now many are fried, and faith in ISKCON gurus is

> even more frayed. But that does not mean that pure devotees cannot be got,

> if you REALY want them.

 

I also used previously to be so bold in sharing this kind of

"realizations." Till that one prominent guru's fall down.

 

It is the sense of having an uttama-adhikari for a guru that gives

the power of "being on ball" in this type of argumentative preaching:

"Only uttama-guru is the way, pray and desire for if you haven't

got one yet. God will hear your desperate call".

 

 

Personally, I don't think that it's really the absence of obvious

uttama-adhikari gurus in ISCKON that makes devotees turning to

rtviks, to Narayana Maharaja, and elsewhere. It is this application

of the "Principle" (that without securing an uttama-adhikari as

your guru, you are checked even in your attempt to understand

Prabhupada's books, what to speak of getting his mercy and advancing

on the way back to Godhead) that makes devotees fried with ISCKON.

It's then the question of survivance, by some mean. It's all the

up to individual choice, then, where to turn. The "patriotizam"

(the loyality to Prabhupada and ISCKON) seams to be useless.

 

 

 

ys mnd