Initiation (?)

[Guest guest]

> On 13 May 1999, Samba das wrote:

>

> > You have been burned by a false guru, but it was you who surrendered to

> > him, so you only have yourself to blame. Of course you were probabaly

> > coerced into it, as were many, what can be done. The siddhanta does not

> > change because a few people mislead.

>

> > You have made a lot of progress, if you really did sincere unmotivated

> > service for that time.

>

>

> How can he have made any progress, Samba Prabhu, if he wasn't

> "personally/bodily" serving a guru? Srila Prabhupada was "gone" when he

> started his spiritual life and his so-called guru fell down and was

> therefore not a pure guru. He never received diksa, correct?

 

Sukriti. The Lord sees his sincerity, any action one performs which is based

on selfless activity, acrues pious credit.. If he was sincere, then he heaps

up pious credits.

 

Unfortunately I am seriously hampered by not having the vedabase, so it is

difficult to find an appropriate quote regarding sukriti.

 

The whole thing depends on a variety of factors. Where they free from the

modes of nature for instance?

 

BG 3.35

"...When one is under the spell of the modes of material nature, one should

follow the prescribed rules for his particular sitation and should not

imitate others. For example a brahmana who is in the mode of goodness, is

nonviolent, wheras a ksatria who is in the mode of passion, is allowed to be

violent. As such for a ksatria it is better to be vanquished following the

rules of violence than to imitate a brahmana who follows the principles of

nonviolence.

 

Everyone has to cleanse his heart by a gradual process, not abruptly.

 

However *when one transcends the modes of material nature and is fully

situated in Krsna consciousness*, he can perform anything and everything

under the direction of a bonafide spiritual master. In that complete state

of Krsna Consciousness, the ksatria can act as a brahmana, or a brahmana may

acta as a ksatria."

 

We have so far taken for granted that all the devotees were situated rightly

in the sankirtan mission. Personaly I was not. I could never do sankirtan,

as waht they asked me to do was actualy not sankirtan, but scamkirtan. I was

certainly not situated properly. How many were situated properly? How many

are still doing it after 20 or more years?

 

After all that sankirtan (or what appeared in some cases to be sankirtan) we

have suffered heavy losses in ISKCON, materialy speaking. Losses of

property, declining membership, hig rates of apostacy, etc. The grand

projects, and aspirations which all seemed so spiritual, of people like

Jayatirtha, and Kirtananda have dried up. How could that be if it were

really all transcendental. The fact is that even these huge leaders had not

transcended the modes of material nature, what to speak of others they were

supposedly engaging in devotional service.

 

Prabhupada makes it clear here, that even once one has transcended the

modes, even then he is to work under the direction of a pure spiritual

master.