Siksa as most important guru

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> > > So just how is it that Srila Prabhupada DOES deliver his disciples,

> > > Prabhu? Is he coming back soon?

> >

> > His disciples can be deliverd by hearing Srila Prabhupadas instructions

> > from a pure devotee siksa guru. If there is not one obvious, then we

> > have to pray for one.

>

> Pardon me, but this is something quite new for me to hear. That

> even the direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada got to first obtain an

> another uttama-bhakta as their siksa guru, in order to get delivered by

> their own Guru Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada.

 

If you go back and read the excerpts I posted from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta,

that is what he says in regard to the disciples of Bhaktivinoda. SBS was

known as an extremely powerful 'simha guru' who did not compromise, and

unhesitatingly established siddhanta. To my mind everything he speaks is

siddhanta. Read carefully (I am afraid to use that word nowadays) and you

will see he actualy says that.

 

I know this is pretty revolutionary, and I will probably be quite unpopular,

but I just find that I cant escape coming to this conclusion after reading

SBS's words. Maybe I need the help of a pure devotee myself to understand

what an idiot I am being in coming to this conclusion. But those are the

stark words of Bhaktisiddhanta. To me this is a principle he is speaking of,

and as far as I can see, it relates as well to us as it did to the followers

of Bhaktivinoda.

 

I cant argue anymore than this, but I urge you to study his words again, and

you will see that this is what he says. ( please dont get on my case again

about reading and studying)

 

OK Srila Prabhupada wrote in English, and did a lot of explaining. But the

principle is there that unless the text written by him is HEARD from the

lips of a pure devotee, it will not have the same effect, and falls into the

category of empiric study.

 

I might well be wrong, but I have not seen a text that directly contradicts

this. And if there is one, it is more evidence that we need help to

reconcile the different texts of the scriptures.

 

Regarding the scriptures. I take it that SBS is reffering to any literature

written by pure devotees, as opposed to speculative literature, which may

pose as sastra.

 

Prabhu, I am not trying to be difficult, I sincerely wish to get to the

bottom of this. Suppose SBS is right, it means we have to do some heavy

rethinking. Myabe that is what ISKCON needs.

 

One thing. If the words of SBS are actualy applicable to us, this is

irrefutable ritvik defeating philosophy. As long as we seem to say that you

need a guru, but be careful in case he falls down. And that if your guru

falls you dont have to be reinitiated you can take shelter of Prabhupadas

books, then that is simply a kind of ritvik argument, and it makes us very

weak in the face of the ritvik idea.

 

Dont forget that we have been fed philosophy that propped up zonal acaryism,

and now still does not let us realise where our gurus are really at. I feel

sure that many of Harikesa Swamis disciples thought he was a mahabhagavata,

why? Because they were not instructed in the basics of siddhanta.

 

YS Sd