Varna determination and who trains

[Guest guest]

>

> > The varna training is indeed received rather from an another

> > experienced person situated in that particular varna,

>

>

> Not according to A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami:

 

At least we agree that it is not a spiritual master who

does it, or do we really? Not a single quote that you provided

gave the confirmation that it is a *spiritual master* that

is supposed to train people into their varnic occupation.

 

I mean, we are splitting hears about what kind of a Vaisnava

is to be called a bona fide spiritual master on the first

place, finding out that such nittya-siddha is more

rare and more precious than anything else in this creation.

And here you are, right on the very spot, proposing that

such personalities are meant to train millions and billions

of people into their varnic occupations.

 

 

As far as wether it is even just brahmanas that are to be

ones to train everybody else into their varnic skills, a

very indicative Prabhupada's statement appears in the

very quote that you provided:

 

"So brahmana should be expert in every kind of knowledge.

If he requires, he will become teacher. This is brahmana."

 

What I would understand -- if there is no more qualified

carpenters to teach their students how to make the

windows, I guess a brahmana would do it then. Or if

the military officers have become so useless that

they can't train properly their soldiers anymore how

to use their weapons and how to kill the enemy, then

guess what... if it requires...

 

 

----------------------

 

You know what. Before we attempt some further discussion

in this direction, let's first clear one step after another.

Let's start with defining the terms we are using (so that

we don't run into each other's mouth anymore). So, yes. Your

proposal was that it is gurus to be the ones to train

the varnas and asramas (right?). Define this term "guru"

so that we may know wether you think "a pure devotee

of the Lord" or "leader" or "sannyas" or "brahmana"...

 

-----------------------

 

 

 

> > activities). So, you turn a "coin" this way or that way, ISCKON gurus

> > got to get blamed no matter what.

>

>

> Yes. This is their problem.

>

> This is only because the ISKCON gurus have not yet in the last 25 years

> followed Srila Prabhupada's orders to divide themselves into the varnas to

> teach the proper subjects they have developed expertise in.

>

>

> "Srila Prabhupada: We are getting so many sannyasis. They should teach.

> The teaching should be done by the sannyasis."

 

 

Oh... I see now. With "guru" you meant "sannyas".

(actually, you never said it, you are right)

 

"The teaching should be done by sannyasis" is supposed to

read "gurus got the order to divide themselves into the

varnas"??? Santa Maria Virgina!

 

 

 

One sentence only, taken out of somewhere, without any reference

to anything, is just enough for you to "prove" how ISCKON gurus

disregarded the order from Prabhupada to divide themselves into

the varnas to teach the people "the proper subjects".

 

But the best part is yet to come... You know, in order to

give the order to gurus to *divide themselves* into varnas,

Prabhupada got to give them order to become the gurus on

the first place. Only after that they could possibly get the

order to "divide themselves" (into whatever you like to say).

But nobody hold the breath till your answer arrives... NO

WAY! That would mean that they are authorized, bona fide gurus.

And that's something that we can't allow to pass through.

 

 

I mean, you already put them into the quotation marks:

 

<< I would love to see many "gurus" established to train

the varnas and asramas. >>

 

.... indicating that they are not real gurus, but so-called

gurus. What further insisting on producing some additional

"order disobeying" you are in need for anyway??

 

 

ys mnd