Guest guest Posted June 1, 1999 Report Share Posted June 1, 1999 "COM: Harsi (das) HKS (Timisoara - RO)" wrote: "Surrender and do the needful..." > [Text 2362423 from COM] > > And what should be the basis of such an daiva Varnasrama dharma society? > Surrender and do the needful? Surrender to whom? The brahmanas, the ksatryas > or to the vaisyas? Acording to what I have learned the sudras are the only > one who supose to be subordinate to this other varnas. The brahmanas, the > ksatriyas and the vaisyas had their indipendence as far as I understod the > vedic system. But in our ISKCON society everyone has to surrender to the > service he supose to do, and do the needfull in order to be accepted > socially. Now I wonder if this principle which was introduced in this > society has its origin and justification in the pioneering time with its > pioneering spirit, or it was ment for all time under all circumstances? > > I mean ultimatelly we should show through our service that we are > surendering to Krsna,s will which is coming to us through the GBC, spiritual > master, temple president or temple comander, etc, at least I was told for > many years that Krishna,s will comes down through this hierarchy, but how > would one show ones surendering atitude for Krishna if the society would be > organized acording to the varnasrama dharma structure of society? What > whould than happen to ISKCON? What would be its function in such a society? > Just some thoughts at the end of the day. > > yhs > Harsi das Hare Krsna dasi comments: These are some nice questions. To me, varnasrama appears to synthesize several principles: ************************** 1. Visnu aradhyate -- in varnasrama society is acting in harmony for the pleasure of Lord Visnu 2. Sarve sukhino bhavantu -- make everyone happy 3. Sve sve kamany abhiratah, samsiddhim labhate narah -- by following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect 4. Dasa-dasanudasah -- one should serve Krsna by serving His servant ************************** I have been thinking lately how it is the duty of persons in different varnas to see society from different perspectives. For instance, what if a man gets beat up and robbed. A brahmana might counsel him saying essentially, "Well, actually, this is a lucky thing for you. You are using up your bad karma. Because of your sinful activities in the past you deserved to have something bad happen to you, and now you got your reaction. Now you can give up your sinful activities in the future. Also, you were too attached to your wealth, and now by Krsna's mercy, it has been taken away." So it is the duty of the brahmana to help his citizen veiw their lot in life philosopically. But, a ksatriya's position is different. When he hears that the man got beat up and robbed, his first response is to protect that man from any further harm. If he needs hospitalization, he make sure that someone takes care of that. Furthermore, he will catch the robber and punish him. And, beyond that, he must examine his society to find out what different factors contributed to the crime. Was the area poorly lit? Were there not enough policemen available? Was something wrong with society? What kind of man committed the crime? Was he trained to be a devotee? Was he able to work in society in such a way that he felt like a valued and appreciated member of society? Did he have adequate training for his work? Did he understand how his daily work was supposed to be a sacremental offering of love to Krsna? In the fourth canto, Srila Prabhupada refers to this as "abhiraksanam." On the most fundamental level, the ksatriya protects his society by making sure that all his citizens are properly trained according to their nature, and that they are serving the Lord by their occupational duty. Of course, these two viewpoints are oversimplified here to make the point that it is the duty of different people in society to take different perspectives. Naturally, the brahmanas will also have some concern that society should be organized in such a way that people don't feel inclined to become criminals, and of course, the ksatriya also understands that the victim is also suffering from some karmic reaction. But, it is not his duty just to throw up his hands and say, "That's your bad karma." His duty is to take practical action to protect the citizen. -- So, to some extent, the first phase of ISKCON had to emphasize mostly the brahmincal viewpoint indicated above: "If you are not happy, that is due to your own offenses." But, when we speak of varnasrama, that indicates that there will be not only brahmanas, but also ksatriyas and other varnas. In that case, it becomes someone's duty (especially the ksatriya's) to ask, "Why aren't people happy? What is the fault in the way we have organized our society?" Let's look at our four principles again: ---------------------- 1. Visnu aradhyate -- in varnasrama society is acting in harmony for the pleasure of Lord Visnu 2. Sarve sukhino bhavantu -- make everyone happy 3. Sve sve kamany abhiratah, samsiddhim labhate narah -- by following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect 4. Dasa-dasanudasah -- one should serve Krsna by serving His servant ---------- In the first phase of ISKON, principle 1 was partially observed: the each person should work for the pleasure of Lord Visnu -- but there was no clear plan of how to get society to act in harmony to serve the Lord. Principle 2 -- make everyone happy. Unfortunately, sometimes this was more like: Force everyone to admit that they are happy. If you were not happy, it was due to your own bad karma, and especially, due to your own maya -- your failure to surrender and do the needful. In varnasrama, by contrast, the ksatriya should be asking, "Why is everyone not happy? Let me arrange society (by giving them suitable occupational training and occupational engagement) so that everyone is happy." Varnasrama is more serious about making everyone happy. Principle 3 -- By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect -- we'll come back to this Principle 4 -- Dasa-dasanudasah -- one should serve Krsna by serving His servant. This principle was highly promoted. What was sometimes forgotten was to test the instructions of an individual who was purportedly representing Krsna to make sure his instructions agreed with guru-sadhu-sastra. Back to Principle 3 -- By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. This is the principle that was temporarily "set aside" in the early days of the movement. Instead of sensitively judging: "What kind of work can this devotee do most successfully?" we demanded him to "simply do the needful." In his conversation of February 14, 1977 in Mayapura, Srila Prabhupada emphasized to the devotees the futility of trying to make everyone become brahmanas without carefully assessing what they were really capable of. Without varnasrama, there is no possibility of understanding Krsna without becoming a brahamana. But, as Srila Prabhupada revealed in that conversation, when varnasrama is perfectly done, then even a sudra can attain spiritual perfection by doing his occupational duty as an offering to Krsna. That was the situation he wanted us to create. In the ideal state, a devotee acting in varnasrama is not just doing karma-yoga (doing fruitive work and offering the results to Krsna), rather, he is doing bhakti-yoga (he is doing his work in the consciousness of making it a loving offering to the Lord). Therefore, varnasrama is important, because only with varnasrama can bhakti-yoga be easily practiced by everyone -- simply by doing his occupational duty. And for those not on the level of bhakti-yoga to begin with, the system is set up in such a way so as to maximize the possibility of it happening. And that is where the dasa-dasanudasah aspect comes back into play. You can look at the situation right now. Let's take Janesvara prabhu's situation (since he initiated this discussion) and my situation. In his character, he has many aspects of a ksatriya. He wants to protect people, and he has a chivalrous spirit (Ultimately, he is not a ksatriya, nor is he a man. But in the relative sense, in the material sense, he has those qualities -- so in varnasrama we want to see how to use those characteristics in his work and in his devotional service.) I have material qualities of a sudra. I want to provide people with excellent service, but I can't quite maitain myself. I don't have that kind of initiative. I want someone else to be responsible for my maintenance. Presently, as he has explained to us in the past, Janesvara prabhu takes care of some security arrangements for an employer. But his employer is not a devotee. For myself, I do secretarial work for a professor, but she is not a devotee either. For either Janesvara or myself to use our occupations to serve the Lord, the main way that we can do it is by karma-yoga. When we get paid, we can offer some money to further the mission of Krsna consciousness. Ideally, we remember Krsna as much as we can while we are working, but the fact that the work we are doing for our livelyhoods does not directly support the spread of Krsna consciousness has a dampening effect on our Krsna consciousness. How would it be different in a varnasrama society? In a varnasrama society, we would both be serving devotees and what's more we would be serving them in ways that were more tangibly linked to maintaining a Krsna conscious society. One point to remember is that although Srila Prabhupada explains that in varnasrama, every varna is independent except for the sudras -- still every individual in society is serving other devotees. Srila Prabhupada personally gave the example by serving devotees in many ways -- even though he was the topmost devotee in our society. Of course, one of his most important services to us was to write many books. That was his service to us whom he viewed as devotees and simultaneously, it was bhakti-yoga his loving devotional service to Krsna. So even the brahmana is serving the devotees. So in a varnasrama society, we would see that the blacksmith is making a plow to serve a farmer. He is happy to use his skills to please the farmer because of a personal affection he has for the farmer, because they share their experiences in worshipping Krsna. The farmer is happy to use his skills to grow grains, one quarter of which he will offer to the ksatriya of the village. He is happy to serve that ksatriya because he knows that the ksatriya is a saintly devotee of Krsna who appreciates his hard work and always is careful to protect him and to maintain harmony in the village. The ksatriya uses his skills to create a harmonious village which will be the ideal preaching field for the brahmana. He is happy to use his skills in this way because he loves the saintly brahmana and he knows that love is reciprocated (bhakti-karya relationships, as Prabhupada describes in the third canto). The brahmana, although he is the social head of the village, actually considers himself to be the servant of all the members of the village because he sees them as many-flavored devotees of Krsna. So in this way, the third principle -- serving Krsna by our occupational duty, and according to our individual nature is observed. But the way we serve Krsna is principally by serving his devotee. And naturally, that expands beyond just the varnas. The wife serves her husband with love, because the husband is a servant of Krsna. The cowherd serves the cow with love, because the cow is a servant of Krsna. As far as principle 1, society really is harmoniously organized for the pleasure of Krsna. As far as principle 2, when people are engaged harnessing their natural ability in Krsna's service, they become expert in it, and they are well-appreciated in society. When society is properly organized according to varnasrama, then everyone actually is happy -- they don't need to be convinced that they are happy. So, at least this is how ISKCON's evolution into the varnasrama society that Srila Prabhupada envisioned for us, as compared to our early pioneer days at the beginning of the movement. your servant, Hare Krsna dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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