Varna: NOT by birth

[Guest guest]

On 03 Jun 1999, Gunamani dd wrote:

 

 

> > Who determines a devotee's varna? For one thing, as Janesvara prabhu has

> > pointed out, Srila Prabhupada has indicated that astrology can be helpful

> > in determining varna. But the main things is that Srila Prabhupada

> > emphasized that the spiritual master should guide the devotee to the

> > correct varna

 

 

> I personally feel that we should notice and keep the word *guide* as very

> important, thus keeping the free choice. When dealing with my own kids I

> certainly know that this is the only possible way.

> Otherwise we might again end up with frustrated people being misplaced,

> like we have seen with marriages and initiations pressed on individuals who

> did not feel that they had a say about important steps in their lifes.

 

 

This brings the subject of qualified gurus to the forefront. We can all agree

that, amongst other means, a bonafide guru should certainly be able to

determine and/or train a person in their varna. Would anyone really question

Srila Prabhupada if he had told them they were of a certain varna? Of course,

a person will sometimes be very confident in their own determination to train

in accordance to a specific varna like Dhruva Maharaja when he told his

spiritual master Narada that brahminical training was not practicable for him

and that he was born a ksatriya and his nature was not changeable in his

estimation nor did he see a need to change it in order to serve the Lord

perfectly.

 

But someone recently suggested, I think it was Mother HK, about a manual for

determining the qualifications of a guru or how to choose a bonafide guru,

something along those lines. Certainly Srila Prabhupada made exhaustive

statements about this throughout his books but I presume the intent is to

consolidate the references into a condensed booklet form for easier reference

for those who have not had the time to read all of Srila Prabhupada's books?

 

It would seem if we are going to rely mainly upon the ISKCON gurus to

determine the varnas of the varnasrama participants then this manual must get

done before we start?

 

Are there any ISKCON gurus who are determining the varnas of their disciples

now? I have requested a list of the same but as yet have not received a single

name.

 

Does this varna-determining-guru have to be the diksa guru of the disciple?

 

Perhaps Madhava Gosh or anyone with folio could supply us with the references

for the qualifications necessary to be a diksa guru. Not references for diksa,

but for diksa-guru specifically? Some have suggested here that a diksa guru

does not have to be an uttama-adhikari so, accepting this for the moment,

could we find the specific references for the qualifications of a diksa-guru

from Srila Prabhupada?

 

Obviously, Mother Gunamani feels some natural reluctance in the judgment of

current ISKCON gurus in determining varnas for people like her own children

and this is quite mature and wise. However, if we are going to rely mainly

upon the guru, and I presume this means the diksa guru, to divide the people

into varnas we all should feel quite confident in their qualifications, don't

we think?

 

As an aside, while I agree that a guru trains people in their varnas with

practical instructions, Srila Prabhupada stated in his morning walk

conversations that the meaning of leadership is to determine HOW everyone

should be engaged - which man is fitted for which work (varna determination in

other words). To me, this is the key element. Leadership. Leaders who take it

as their daily prescribed duty to lead according to VAD and who are intimately

concerned with the practicable personal, human, social, and spiritual

development of their citizens in accordance with the daiva varnasrama-dharma

institution on a daily prescribed duty basis. Always inquiring of their

comfort, engagement, sense of security (mental and physical), training

techniques, whether the brahmana trainers are being supportive and truthful,

counseling on varna determination for individuals, etc., etc. This is

leadership. They are concerned with varna first.

 

My opinions all.