Siksa guru as personal spiritual guide

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>

> A major problem in this discussion is that we limit ourselves to "in

> ISKCON." There's a whole world of advanced Vaisnavas outside our

> self-conceived sectarian walls.

>

 

Why do you think it is the problem? I suppose that it is clear

and self-evident that anyone may chose to search for a guru

anywhere he/she likes. There are other institutions, there are

other Sampradayas, there are other religion, there are yogis

on Himalayas and babajis in Vrndavana, and so on, and so on.

 

Nobody is stating here that "ISCKON is the only way", or?

 

 

 

> If we are real spiritualists, we will never stop craving for the

> association of highly advanced devotees (1st-class, uttama, etc.) IN THIS

> VERY LIFETIME for further inspiration in our devotional service. However,

> it must be made clear continued association with advanced Vaisnavas knows

> no such distinction as "SP disciple,grand-disciple," disciple of fallen

> guru,ISKCON devotee,Gaudiya Matha," etc.

 

The followers of Narayana Maharaja at least ought to be well aware

of how Maharaja is strict in not allowing the Vaisnavas from other

Maths, especially from ISCKON, to come lecturing in HIS Math, to HIS

followers and disciples, and becoming siksa and diksa gurus to

HIS disciples and followers. But when it comes to other institutions,

then the same followers of NM become the preachers of this "universal

cosmopolitanism", accusing the members of other institutions of

sectarianism.

 

It is this hypocrisy that turns me right away. We are constantly

being bombard "Get out from your self-imposed walls of ISCKON."

And for what purpose? To join to an another, even more conservative

sect that tolerates following no other guru but that math's acarya.

 

Treat us as grown-ups, Srila Prabhu. We also, like you, have spent

already some time in this material world.

 

 

 

> Advanced or high-class

> association is an essential need for everyone regardless of our particular

> designation. Indeed our so-called "spiritual" designations may be our

> worst impediments to making greater spiritual progress.

>

 

Well, next time you meet Narayana Maharaja you can ask him when he

is going to cease designating his Math and his disciples and followers

as his. And ask his disciples when they are going to cease designating

themselves as his disciples.

If you have lost your so-called "spiritual" designation (as you named

it so) as a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, then be it so. Your private

thing.

 

 

> Our ability to associate with Srila Prabhupada through his books, prayer

> or any other means depends upon our individual *adhikara*. Anyone can

> certainly read SP's books, but understanding their purport (being able to

> "read the fine print") is another issue. Asociation with advanced souls

> (sadhu-sanga) increases our spiritual *sukrti* by leaps and bounds:

>

> sadhu-sanga sadhu-sanga sarva sastre kaya

> lava-matra sadhu-sange sarva-siddhi haya

>

 

We have already met numerous times with this same message: That in

ISCKON we got no fulfillment of such requirement, i.e. the association

of sadhus who would be able to impart to us the purport of Srila

Prabhupada books. So therefore we got to look somewhere else. Like,

Narayana Maharaja, for example.

 

 

> It is easy to concoct a new philosophy and make another religious dogma

> out of Vaisnavism. It has happened repeatedly throughout the past and it

> can and did happen in ISKCON.

>

 

And it can't happen "outside" of ISCKON, in some other Vaisnava

institution? Com'n, Srila prabhu. Who is being here of a

tunnellike vision, I may wonder.

 

 

> How much do we actually understand what we read in Srila Prabhupada's

> books? Judging from the interminable debate that has gone on under the

> rubric of the "guru issue," it is obvious we have still much to

> comprehend.

 

You mean, only we, the ISCKON members, got to comprehend still

much? But once we go to Narayana Maharaja, or whomever else, then

it's all fine. No more of "still much to comprehend".

 

Can't you stop focusing this concentration of yours on ISCKON

only. If you find some of us appearing as a sect-minded people

(for staying with ISCKON and not going to other gurus "outside"),

then be aware that you are sounding like one of those anti-sect

people that got their pick on ISCKON.

 

 

>

> Just in SP's presence, all doubts about "who is a guru" were immediately

> dispelled, similarly in the presence of highly advanced souls, all our

> questions about *guru-tattva* will be quickly resolved.

>

 

Was that the reason why Srila Prabhupada had to continuously explain,

indicate, point out, hint, instruct, and so on, how he (Prabhupada)

is a bona fide guru?

 

Anyway, the real point here being that you are aging suggesting that in

ISCKON we can't fulfill our need for this resolving of "who is a guru".

That in ISCKON, after Srila Prabhupada's departure there is no more

whom to turn to. So, we got to look for somebody else (like Narayana

Maharaja, for example). Are you actually aware of your own message??

I think you are. But you are just packing it into a certain pack-paper.

 

 

 

> The "guru question" affects everyone of us, because it is a universal

> principle. *Guru* is not a dogma or a matter of a personality cult --

> restricted to any particular person or institution -- but it is the

> spiritual dynamic of how each one of us continues to receive guidance from

> within and without. The primary dynamic of spiritual life for Vaisnavas is

> continuing ASSOCIATION WITH ADVANCED DEVOTEES.

>

> Is this not our philosophy?

>

 

Right on the head of the nail. Tell all this to HH Narayana Maharaja

and his followers. So that they may open the bunker-like doors

of their "Kremlin" to ISCKON advanced devotees and preachers, as well

as to any other Vaisnava from anywhere else. Let NM stop restricting

both siksa and diksa in his Math for himself. Let him share it all

with any other dvanced Vaisnava that happens to walk in. Once I see this

"universal principle" that you are talking about practiced in his

Math (or in some other Vaisnava instituition, for that matter) then

I will trust both to him and you in this regard.

 

 

 

ys mnd