The Soul's Fall... The Final Word

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Dandavat Pranam.

 

All Glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

 

Hare Krishna.

 

 

Following are the quotes posted by devotees in this thread and I have

tried to understand ( or speculate ? )on each one of them.

But in my understanding I find it difficult to reconcile them.

 

Srila Prabhupada says that "ANYONE" can fall down from Vaikuntha in

Bhagavad-gita Lecture, July, 4, 1974, Honolulu

 

quote 1:

 

After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world. Just like

Jaya Vijaya. There is possibility,if you do not stick to the spiritual

principle, even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what tospeak of

this material world? Because in the Vaikuntha or in the spiritual world, no

contaminated soul can stay there.

 

He will fall down. Now, when the spirit soul falls down. Just like Jaya

Vijaya. Jaya and Vijaya became asuras. They fell down from Vaikuntha. But they

became asuras under the circumstances.

 

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Comments:

Srila Prabhupada says that anyone can fall down from the spiritual world

if one does not stick to the spiritual principle. So it appears that the

free will is there in the spiritual world and souls who are in this

material world might have misused the free will while in the spiritual

world and as a result are in the material world.

 

Further he gives an example of how Jaya and Vijaya fell down. But then Jaya

and Vijaya came to the material world to facilitate Lord's

pastimes by becoming demons. I heard Srila Prabhupada saying in a

lecture -- that when Krishna wants to fight, devotees come down as

demons to help fulfil the Lord's desire.

Does that mean that everyone who is in the material world has a purpose

to fulfil by assisting the Lord in His pastime, or is it out of our free

will ( having decided to lord it over) that we are in the material

world. The latter seems more convincing to me ( from my activites ).

 

 

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quote 2 :

 

Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall

down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the

soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his

independence. But his relationship with Krsna is never

lost, simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained

or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the

devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or

constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is

eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of

revival only, nothing new. --

Jagadisha, Los Angeles 27th February, 1970

 

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Comments:

This quote is more or less on similar lines to the first one. The first

sentence suggests that there can be fall down from any position ( since the

free will exists, even from the spiritual world ? )

 

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Quote 3 :

 

Bhaagavatam 7.1.35 purport: "Therefore it is to be understood that when Jaya

and Vijaya descended to this material world, they came because there was

something to be done for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is a

fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha."

 

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Comments:

This is in contrast to the first and second quotes ,( atleast to me)

especially the last sentence .

 

 

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Quote 4:

Bhagavatam 1.15.27 purport: "The material activity of the living being is

beginningless, but it can be rectified by transferal into the spiritual

quality. Thus it can cease its material qualitative reactions."

 

----xxxxx------------

Comments:

Does this mean we were always in the material world and NEVER in the

spiritual world ? So I guess we had already made the choice the moment

we were created ( again the jiva always existed so we cannot exactly

define "the moment" of creation but then Krishna also says that He is the

source and origin of everything. Being under the influence of "time"

I am not be able to conceive of a place and things ( -- the spiritual world

)bereft of the influence of the time factor)

 

 

----xxxxx--------xxxx---

Quote 5 :

"dhaamnaa svena sadaa nirasta\-kuhakaM satyaM paraM dhiimahi"

 

"I therefore meditate upon Him, Lord Sri Krishna, who is

eternally existent in the transcendental abode, which is

forever free from the illusory representations of the material

world. I meditate upon Him, for He is the Absolute Truth."

--- Bhagvatam (1.1.1 -?)

"In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such

misconceived dream, and in that pure conscious state the

living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but

he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental

love."

Lecture by Srila Prabhupada(Tokyo Apr 20 , 72)

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Comments:

If the spiritual world is free from illusions, then there can be no fall down

from the spiritual world.

Quote 4 then makes sense and the fact that we were NEVER in the spirtual

world can be accepted .

But then what about quote 1 and quote 2? where Srila Prabhupada suggests

that even a falldown from the spiritual world is possible.

How can both be true? ( Quote 1, 2 v/s quote 4, 5)

 

 

Hare Krishna,

 

Jai Srila Prabhupada

YS

-P