Guest guest Posted July 16, 1999 Report Share Posted July 16, 1999 On 11 Jul 1999, Vidvan Gauranga wrote: > > > Furthermore, we know that many senior disciples of gurus WHO ARE NOT (yet) considered "FALLEN" are losing faith that their gurus are > > > competent enough to lead them across the ocean of material existence. > This is a silly argument. > Ananta Vasudeva, who was the right hand man of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta > Sarasvati Thakura, lost faith in BSST that he was bona fide. But that had nothing to do with the guru, but everything with himself. Respectfully, if my argument is "silly," then your counter-example and the logic behind it is *irrevelant.* Is anyone of ISKCON's gurus even close to the same level as Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, a nitya-siddha from even before his birth (ie, his father being Bhaktivinode Thakura)? Furthermore, I am not sure if you are privy to the Ananta Vasudeva's inner psychology, so you would be well-advised not to speculate about that either. He is also your paramguru's godbrother. Therefore don't even dare to offer such a comparison. It is far from being applicable here anyway. But in direct answer to your challenge: Yes, when a disciple loses faith in his guru, there are two basic alternatives -- the disciple is defective or the guru is defective. Note here that I don't say "the guru is 'bogus,'" because there are all sorts of possibilties in between. However, when we speak of determining the *primary* cause of something (ie, a guru's defect or a disciple's defect), for our purposes it is simply a question of preponderance of one side's defect over the other. Very rarely do we find 'perfect' gurus or disciples, but we can examine the *degree* to which someone is qualified or not. Remember, the topic under discussion is the *guru*, so for now, let us focus on that. In the case when the disciple is basicly sincere and bona fide, then it is the guru who is not very realized (eg. kanistha or low madhyama) and incapable of offering "sufficient guidance" (NOI.5). In the "Essence of All Advice," (Upadesamrta) the condensed instruction on guru-asraya, Srila Prabhupada states this very clearly. From that we can infer that a guru who is incapable of giving sufficient guidance will at one point in the disciple's progress become superfluous or disappointing. That is simply axiomatic. How so? If you can't guide me to my desired destination, I cannot keep trusting you to help me, can I? If a teacher doesn't understand the inner purport to the material he is supposed to be presenting, how can he teach a proper understanding of it to his students? His students will become confused. If the guru himself is not free from all anarthas, how can he set an inspiring example of purity? The disciples will lose their inclination to follow, chant or perform devotional service. If the guru is not himself free from doubt and illusion, how can he clear the doubts and illusions of his disciples? It is not possible. They will lose faith. This is a practical point. But you call it "silly." I would simply call this "common sense." But as they say, "common sense is uncommon" -- even in a spiritual society, unfortunately. Unless a guru is himself realized (which means he is directly acting as an instrument of Krsna) or acting in accordance with other more qualified Vaisnavas, he must be defective and subject to all the frailties of a conditioned soul. Your 'silly' servant, Srila dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 1999 Report Share Posted July 16, 1999 On 14 Jul 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > Ooops wait. Sorry about the time warp. I forgot that after all the sneering > at > Mac by PC, the PC now has 3.5 floppies, a mouse, graphics interface, drop > down > menus, and color. > Well, all that is ancient history. Where is the MAC now? How pathetic when the thing it brags about the most is the different COLORS its boxes are! LOL! BTW, I'm not a Windoze booster, I'm in the Linux camp. However, Bill Gates' crappy platform has made me rich in consulting fees cleaning up otrhers' messes. So, I ain't gonna bite the hand that fed me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 1999 Report Share Posted July 16, 1999 On 15 Jul 1999, Bhuta-bhavana Dasa wrote: > > > Well, all that is ancient history. Where is the MAC now? How pathetic when the thing it brags about the most is the different COLORS its boxes are! LOL! > > If I was a gambling man, I'd a bought into Apple a couple of years ago when it was selling for about 13 bucks a share. It's know aproaching 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 1999 Report Share Posted July 16, 1999 On 15 Jul 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > If I was a gambling man, I'd a bought into Apple a couple of years ago when it > was selling for about 13 bucks a share. It's know aproaching 60. > That same $13 bucks would have returned you $300 with Microsoft. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 1999 Report Share Posted July 16, 1999 > > > That same $13 bucks would have returned you $300 with Microsoft. > > ;-) > But then buying Microsoft isn't a gamble, so they say. But I don't think they increased by 400% in value over the last two years. In any event, it's easy being a millionaire on paper when you invest in the past. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 On 16 Jul 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > But then buying Microsoft isn't a gamble, so they say. But I don't think they > increased by 400% in value over the last two years. Dosn't matter what you think. The stock split twice. One share in 1983 is 4 shares now. But don't believe me.................check it out. Bhuta (the Greek) Bhavana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 On 17 Jul 1999, Bhuta-bhavana Dasa wrote: > > Dosn't matter what you think. The stock split twice. One share in 1983 is 4 shares now. But don't believe me.................check it out. > > Bhuta (the Greek) Bhavana > And how much did you have riding on MS? .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 On 17 Jul 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > And how much did you have riding on MS? Actually I have Zero as in nada, zip, nothing. But only because Bill & Melinda donated $2.74 Million to fund abortions in India. I made my riches day-trading in amazon.com last January. Everything is out of the market now and invested in land at the base of the Selkirk Mountains here in Northern (Free) Idaho. But on a lighter note: Did you hear that Gate's marriage is on the rocks? Melinda doesn't do Windows. ======================================================================== JULY 16, 19:17 EDT Microsoft Valued Above $500B By GEORGE TIBBITS AP Business Writer SEATTLE (AP) — Microsoft Corp. became the first company to be worth more than half a trillion dollars Friday as the software company's stock price surged following a report that it might create a separate stock for its Internet properties. Microsoft's stock was up $5.06 1/4 to $99.43 3/4 a share in trading on the Nasdaq Stock Market. With more than 5.1 billion shares outstanding, that gave Microsoft a total market capitalization of about $507 billion. Microsoft's market value far outpaces the No. 2 company, General Electric, which was worth about $384 billion based on Friday's stock prices. The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that Microsoft, which will report its annual earnings Monday, is moving closer to creating a tracking stock for its Internet businesses to take advantage of the stock market's infatuation with the Internet. A tracking stock is designed to give investors the opportunity to focus on just one aspect of the company's business without creating a separate publicly traded company. The move would be a way to pay for Internet-related acquisitions and attract talented employees seeking the high valuations of Internet companies, the Journal said. Microsoft also received a boost when a federal court jury in Connecticut ruled it had not violated federal antitrust laws in its dealings with Bristol Technology Inc., a small software company. A company spokesman did not immediately return a telephone call to The Associated Press. Microsoft's MSN.com is one of the most-visited sites on the Web, and includes such services as Hotmail e-mail, the Expedia travel site and the CarPoint auto buying service Although critics assail Microsoft's take-no-prisoners competitiveness, investors have favored a company with large profit margins, rapidly growing sales and no debt. Microsoft's phenomenal rise has created countless millionaires and made company founders Bill Gates and Paul Allen two of the richest men on Earth. At current stock prices, Gates would be worth more than $100 billion, based on the more than 1 billion Microsoft shares he was listed as owning in a Feb. 11 proxy statement. Allen, listed as having more than 276 million shares, is worth more than $27 billion. ========================================================================= If Bill didn't have his legal problems in Washington he could purchase Apple from his petty cash fund just to trash it as he's done with countless other companies. I wonder how much of this Windows-bashing is just envy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 On 17 Jul 1999, Bhuta-bhavana Dasa wrote: > > > If Bill didn't have his legal problems in Washington he could purchase Apple from his petty cash fund just to trash it as he's done with countless other companies. I wonder how much of this Windows-bashing is just envy. > He already owns stock in Apple. I guess he figures it's a good investment. Or maybe he liked the idea that Jobs chanted Hare Krsna on their cable dramatization. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 1999 Report Share Posted July 17, 1999 On 17 Jul 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > He already owns stock in Apple. I guess he figures it's a good investment. He investment in Apple is less than 1% of his wealth. Not much of an investment, IMNSHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 1999 Report Share Posted July 18, 1999 On 17 Jul 1999, Bhuta-bhavana Dasa wrote: > > He investment in Apple is less than 1% of his wealth. Not much of an > investment, IMNSHO. > But it was more than I made last year. And the year before that, too, I think. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 1999 Report Share Posted July 18, 1999 On 18 Jul 1999, Sthita-dhi-muni Dasa wrote: > > But it was more than I made last year. And the year before that, too, I think. That's because austerity (and with it, poverty) is the wealth of the brahmanas. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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