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[Guest guest]

>

> Am I right in thinking that it is his description of some future possible

> community, or is this going on right now?

>

> YS Samba das

 

Yo Samba, Haribo

 

Glad you liked it.

This community is going on right now in the fertile imagination of my friend,

Bim, you know. The essay does have the effect, though, of bringing varnashrama

out of the realm of abstraction and into the specifics of everyday life. It

actually seemed like a place where I wouldn't mind living. Did you notice

there were no ksatrias riding around on chariots in the description. Just

wouldn't have been practical and real life is nothing if not practical, eh?

Stoves, this is the stuff of life, eh! I sent Bim a copy of your letter and

expect a reply shortly, and it could be a lengthy one at that, on the subject

of stoves, which I shall forward to you.

thanks tri

 

The wildernes of Mauritius, eh? Sounds cool! Are there large snakes hanging

from the trees and whatnot? Do the natives to the area have a practical method

of cooking so as not to create a lot of heat as I take it for granted it's hot

there yearound. I could be wrong, maybe its like northern India???

[Guest guest]

>

> This community is going on right now in the fertile imagination of my friend,

> Bim, you know. The essay does have the effect, though, of bringing

varnashrama

> out of the realm of abstraction and into the specifics of everyday life. It

> actually seemed like a place where I wouldn't mind living. Did you notice

> there were no ksatrias riding around on chariots in the description. Just

> wouldn't have been practical and real life is nothing if not practical, eh?

> Stoves, this is the stuff of life, eh!

 

I also noticed there was no description of how it was paid for. One of those

annoying practicalities.

[Guest guest]

On 17 Jul 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote:

 

> >

> > This community is going on right now in the fertile imagination of my

friend,

> > Bim, you know. The essay does have the effect, though, of bringing

> varnashrama

> > out of the realm of abstraction and into the specifics of everyday life.

It

> > actually seemed like a place where I wouldn't mind living. Did you notice

> > there were no ksatrias riding around on chariots in the description. Just

> > wouldn't have been practical and real life is nothing if not practical,

eh?

> > Stoves, this is the stuff of life, eh!

>

> I also noticed there was no description of how it was paid for. One of

those

> annoying practicalities.

>

 

It is annoying. That money thing.

Well, I guess its really about land first of all. And a landless roastabout

like myself is in no position to be doing much talking, I guess. And then

there's the matter of building a house on said land. And that also takes a

heck of a lot of energy and money. I'd just prefer to grow vegetables and live

kind of simply but I know I'm totally dependent on the dominant society for my

survival. Actually I'd like to start building myself a home, but I've no land

and I'm not sure where I want to live and....

 

The point is, Gosh, I'd LIKE to live in a grounded community where people

actually support each other instead of living the "kill or be killed" way that

is taught and encouraged by the structures of society at large (and seen in

micocosms like the society of devotees). It seems like in the devotee society

at large, the qualities of kindness and supportiveness were never taught as

practices. Hence, although these are the stated qualities of a devotee, we

find intense fault-finding and criticism running rampant. And it's so

unfortunate, because we'll never build a community of devotees, without some

ability to, first and foremost, be tolerant, forgive, and be kind to each

other. We already have the most sublime philosophy; we're not lacking in that

department. But constantly bashing one another or ourselves over the head with

it, is not productive of a sane society. Take a look around. Is this what we

wanted?

 

A commpassionate society is the exception, not the norm. And it has to be

developed intentionally, by a group or individually. And that is the big

challenge for this here movement, as I see it anyways. But maybe I'm avoiding

the larger issue of work. Am I? Anyways you're an inspiration, Gosh. See to

them gourds, now. I love ya' man -tri

[Guest guest]

And it's so unfortunate, because we'll never build a

> community of devotees, without some ability to, first and foremost, be

> tolerant, forgive, and be kind to each other.

 

"and be kind to each other" I wonder what kind of sarcastic remark that

might provoke! Come on all you criticisers, jump on that one!

 

Not that humour can't have it place. I remember sitting in a class in LA

once, given by Mahasrnga (then swami). He was saying how we have to love one

another. I was sitting just behind HH Hridyananda Maharaja and Locana

Prabhu. Just after this statement, the maharaja turned to Locan, put his

hand on his shoulder, and said with sincerity written all over his face, "I

love you Locan". It was so amusing.

 

We already have the most

> sublime philosophy; we're not lacking in that department. But constantly

> bashing one another or ourselves over the head with it, is not productive

> of a sane society. Take a look around. Is this what we wanted?

 

Dead right. This bad attitude is everywhere. I have seen it often when a

congragational devotee (ie anyone who lives outside, even if they have been

initiated for 20 years or more) visits an ISKCON temple. A devotee will very

quickly 'size you up' according to your appearance and demeanor. Once you

have been judged in this way, and your position in the 'advancement'

category has been noted, generaly the attitudes tend to be very dismissive.

 

If you have not been to the temple for Mangala Arati, or lead a kirtan, or

been seen chanting everyone of your rounds, then really you are just not

worth associating with. Rather than try to understand where a person is at

through ongoing honest diologue, (rather than constantly condescending to

them), some devotees prefer to hide behind their own 'perfect' sadhana.

 

Even the devotees in the temple are not spared. Once your weaknesses are

known, the attitude is, "Oh such and such prabhu, well you know where *he*

is at".

 

> A commpassionate society is the exception, not the norm. And it has to be

> developed intentionally, by a group or individually. And that is the big

> challenge for this here movement, as I see it anyways.

 

Exactly. This is the department where we need serious work. A lot of the

problem comes from the leaders (whatever a great man does) as long as they

maintain a false position.

 

It is amazing to see how some people do this. Has anyone noticed a person

they knew, who after taking sanyas, suddenly became a different person? (no

names please) Sort of affecting sobriety, putting on airs? To me that is an

indication that things aint right. What is the need to make such external

changes?

 

I spent a good bit of time with one or two of other devotees gurus (now

absent), and the thing I often noticed was that they seemed to be relieved

to associate with a non disciple, as they did not have to put on their

'guru' profile. They could actualy be just regular Joe's. Later I realised

thats where they actualy were. Not karmi Joe's of course, but just that they

did not appear that much more 'special' than any other average devotee.

 

It seems that some leaders are actualy taking the humble position nowadays.

Lets hope they are actualy genuinely remorseful, and not just riding with

the times. Or am I just an incurable optimist?

 

YS