The Soul's Fall... The Final Word

[Guest guest]

On 15 Jul 1999, Mahanidhi das wrote:

> VSP wrote:

> > [sB 4.28.54] does not explicitly say that the events in the spiritual

world

> > are "prior to our choosing."

 

> Oh, then WHAT is it if not "prior"?? After? Right now? Say it loudly

> so that we may know.

 

The purport talks about 2 different situations. This is clear from

both the short-range context and the long-range context.

 

Short-range context (SB 4.28.53 purport): "This is an explanation of

how the living entity falls down into the material world. In spiritual

world there is no duality, nor is there hate ... When the living

entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop a consciousness of

duality and come to hate the service of the Lord. In this way the

living entities fall into the material world."

 

Note the second sentence -- it is an absolute. There is _NO_ duality

or hate in the spiritual world. Then what should we make of the

description, "When the living entities desire to enjoy themseves, they

develop a consciousness of duality and come to hate" ? This event

clearly cannot be taking place in the spiritual world, since there is

no duality or hate in the spiritual world (*). Thus, the living

entities spoken of here are not residents of the spiritual world, but

rather some other type of living entities who are nevertheless also

innately spiritual.

 

(*) Some might argue that the purport technically only says that there

is no duality or hate in the spiritual _world_; it does not explicitly

say anything about the residents of the spiritual world. However, this

argument is specious; even the ordinary mundane world does not exhibit

a consciousness of duality and hate, so one who tried to use this

argument could also say that there is no duality or hate in

America. Of course, you'll find plenty of duality and hate here

(e.g. Columbine high school), though none of it belongs to the jaDa

that makes up the American landmass. So, the connotation of the

purport is clearly that there is no duality or hate anywhere in the

environment of the spiritual world.

 

Long-range context (SB 1.15.27 purport): "The material activity of the

living being is beginningless, but it can be rectified by transferal

into the spiritual quality. Thus it can cease its material qualitative

reactions."

 

Again, an absolute statement. There is no beginning to our material

activity. Since material activity can only take place through a

material body and senses (#1 and #2 of the 5 factors), we have always

had material bodies and senses. As such, we cannot have been in the

spiritual world, which is characterized by "brahmana pazyati brahmana

zRnoti" (madhyandina zruti, cited in BG 15.7 purport; means that the

living entity in the spiritual world sees and hears the Supreme Lord

through spiritual senses).

 

Thus, with all that context, we cannot possibly take SB 4.28.54

purport to indicate that the living entity fallen in the material

world has actually experienced the spiritual world prior to his

time in the material world.

 

> It is incredible how otherwise clear and explicit purport by

> Srila Prabhupada can be "screwed-up" so much so to mean just

> anything or just nothing.

 

It is also incredible how so much evidence can be completely

ignored.

> You are simply taking randomly any possible meaning of the words as

> offered by some word dictionary, and then throwing them into Srila

> Prabhupada's purport without absolutely any consideration of the

> context.

 

On the contrary, prabhu, it is only by ignoring the context of the

earlier cantos of the Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad Gita that

ideas like "the jiva experiences the spiritual world prior to choosing

to go to the material world" can arise.

 

Yours,

 

Vijay S. Pai