How to start varnasrama

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > The new

> > bhaktas will get proper Krsna consciouss education in the bhakta class

> > then go for some time on sankirtan and after three years in the temple

> > they will be guidet to find a proper varna education or job acording to

> > their inclinations where they can learn to maintain themselves and thus

> > be able to maintain a family.

>

>

>

> Srila Prabhupada said: "Varna first, THEN asrama. Asrama comes later" What

> is described above is the opposite of this. Why don't they want to follow

> Srila Prabhupada's idea?

>

 

What makes you think that it's opposite than "varna first, then

asrama", that "they don't want to follow SP's idea"??

 

 

Funny, but the very last sentence from Harsi, the only one that you

omitted to quote ("And who likes can remain a lifelong brahmacari

in the temple."), indicates that the idea indeed is that first

some varna training should be there, THEN the decision wether

get married or remain as lifelong brahmacaris. So, "varna first,

then asrama" in application. But "they" seem got not to get the

other chance but to be blamed for "not following Prabhupada".

 

Otherwise, "varna first, then asrama" is traditionally practiced

not really with the grown-up people, even. The boys and girls in

their young years would have gotten their varna determined, and then

the training accordingly, and the asrama after that. So, having to

deal with the grown ups who might have decided to join this movement

at some point of their lives, you can't even really expect some full

application of the rule. So what can you do if the people who join

are already married, or they simply fell in love to someone and then

decide to get married even before your proclamation "now you may

marry"? Even in China it wouldn't work out. Anyway, the idea is indeed

to try to implement "varna first, then asrama", as much as that

is possible. Instead of appreciating the move in the right direction,

you attack it as "not following". So quick on it.

 

 

 

 

> Why would they force some bhaktas who are probably NOT brahmanas to go out

> on "sankirtan" for three years?

>

 

Where did you get the idea of *forcing* some bhaktas on sankirtana

for three years?

 

Anybody who has been going on the street to distribute Srila

Prabhupada's books, will tell you that you can't force anyone

to do it for that time.

 

Again, the *idea* of doing it for three years (if you are a temple

devotee) is there. For those for whom it works out, fine. For those

for whom it would not work out like that, something else will for

sure be there. (Maybe in China you could force people, by a state

order and the police threat, to make their "3-years-state-service"

of book-distribution. But in ISCKON it have never worked even so far,

don't expect it would be in this phase of ISCKON development.)

 

 

> What is is that the German temples find implausible in Srila Prabhupada's

> idea of starting a varnasrama college in their center for the initial

> training and let the natural varnas develop from the varnasrama training?

 

Where did you get the idea that it is first the "varnasrama college"

to be going through, before entering the temple life style of the

devotional service? Is it Srila Prabhupada's, really?

 

Don't expect from the people joining a Hare Krsna temple to be

doing it so out of their interest to get some occupational, varna

training. Where are you coming from? (in my "motherland", one would

say, "Have you dropped here from a Mars?").

 

 

> And if the bhakta is a vaisya, sudra or ksatriya by nature this has been

> discovered BEFORE engaging them in some incorrect, unnatural varna wherein

> they would only become frustrated and leave.

>

 

Where are you getting your ideas from? Since when some years of

book distribution (for those who can make it, self-obviously) are

"incorrect, unnatural varna engagement"?

 

 

> Varna first, asrama later. Not sankirtana first, varna later. This is

> simply a continuation of human rights abuse for which we are now suffering

> horrible international attention.

>

 

Instead of appreciating the idea of establishing some varna training

in some ISCKON temples, you are blasting it all away as "abuse of

human rights".

 

 

 

> FIRST, determine the varna of a new bhakta and provide the respective

> varna training, education, engagement, facilities, teaching, association,

> etc., all related to the varna of the bhakta, then his engagement for the

> rest of his life in the service of the Lord is assured of success. And he

> or she will be happy the whole time.

>

 

Then you send them all not to a Hare Krsna temple. Maybe to some

camps, where they will get the professional training.

 

Temples actually, in the classic meaning of "temple", should be

the place for brahmanas only, engaged in the worship of deities.

Well, in ISCKON, perhaps also the place for the brahmana-preachers.

 

Everybody else somewhere else.

 

 

 

> This "three years in the temple and sankirtana" is brain-washing and "cult

> consciousness".

 

Then don't go living in the temple, if even 3 years of it is too much

for you, and some brain-washing occultism.

 

Srila Prabhupada was the one who established the distribution of

his books to be the basis of the temple life and consciousness. To

simply try to balance it in some more practical form as it used

to be so far, is to be rather appreciated. Not condemned as a

"brainwashing".

 

"My first concern is that my books shall be published and

distributed profuely all over the world. Practically, books

are the bases of our movement. Without our books, our preaching

will have no effect..." (SPL to Mandhali Badhra, January 20th, 972)

 

"In Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement, EVERYONE is a preacher, wether

man or woman it doesn't matter. I don't know why Kirtanananda Swami

is encouraging our women devotees not to go out on sankirtana for

book distribution. EVERYONE SHOULD GO OUT." (SPL to Karandhara,

October 6th, 1973)

 

"Regarding to your question, actually it is a fact that ULTIMATELY

EVERYONE SHOULD PREACH AND DISTRIBUTE BOOKS IF THEY WANT TO PLEASE

ME IN THE BEST WAY".

 

 

There are many, many more clear references from Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

> What if the new bhakta was a vaisya by nature from DAY ONE

> and would have been a fantastic servitor of the cows who are suffering?

 

Don't use "cow's suffering" as the argument against the idea of

"3-years temple life" period.

 

 

 

 

 

- mnd

 

PS. You just objected to Sthita his "Chairman Mao" expression, but

look how you are continuing with blasting away anybody's effort to

do anything in regard to doing something practical on the field.

The only way for somebody to not get shoot down by you, seams to be

to do it exactly the way you would dictate. Well, yes, then get a

"China" for yourself.

..