Guest guest Posted August 9, 1999 Report Share Posted August 9, 1999 > If anyone is interested in a pilot project then please let me know. I have > very little knowledge about agriculture, but have > financial resources and deep commitment to Srila Prabhupada's > instructions. > How many devotees out there are willing to > re-locate so we can all pool our talents in making a successful project > for the pleasure of our beloved Srila Prabhupada ? > > YS > Sumitra devi dasi > > Let me make a suggestion that you examine already existing projects. > Although none may be seen to be currently highly successful , it will > probably be easier to enhance one than to start from scratch. Perhaps a list of existing projects would be helpful to those wanting to join or start to do something practical. This list could include successes and lessons learned as well as short and long term goals. aspiring to be a servant, bhaktin bev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > > Perhaps a list of existing projects would be helpful to those wanting to > join or start to do something practical. This list could include successes > and lessons learned as well as short and long term goals. > > aspiring to be a servant, > bhaktin bev Now that is a good idea. IT could be a list devotees wanting to support projects or join projects could shop from. A practical thing to actually work on together online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > > > Everyone needs to find a way to serve Krsna according to his natural > inclinations. None-the-less, without promoting a healthy brahminical > sub-culture, the larger VAD society will suffer immeasurably. Yes, if the brahmans are fed by the fruits of karmi culture, we could expect that VAD would suffer. And if fed by fruits of a devotee culture, it would flourish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 On 10 Aug 1999, Samba das wrote: > > As far as I can see this falls exactly in line with Srila Prabhupadas > deisres, except that he goes further when he says that the other varnic > teaching should also be done in our centers. > My only complaint here is what I pereive as a lack of practical, tangeable experience. We are gradually gaining such experience, often painfully so, but we still have so far to go. Sometimes it sounds as if we are still in Little League baseball thinking we are on the verge of making the Majors. > > You can call their building or compound ISKCON if you like, but the name, 'International SOCIETY for Krsna Counsciousness, can and does seem to imply a society, made up of all groups, to why restrict the name to the brahmins only? > No, ISKCON isn't restricted to any one group, but as a society, our thrust is education, which is considered a brahminical type occupation. Just as the thrust of a ksatriya institution would be diplomacy and such, and a vaisya instituion would be business and agriculture, and a sudra institution might be the various skilled crafts, a brahminical institution should focus on education and spiritual pursuits. But at no time do any of the varna's act independently of the others -- in a healthy society they all work together. ys, Sthita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 On 10 Aug 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > > > > > Everyone needs to find a way to serve Krsna according to his natural > > inclinations. None-the-less, without promoting a healthy brahminical > > sub-culture, the larger VAD society will suffer immeasurably. > > Yes, if the brahmans are fed by the fruits of karmi culture, we could expect that VAD would suffer. And if fed by fruits of a devotee culture, it would flourish. > > Therefore in a healthy, mature VAD culture, the various human engagements work cooperately for the benefit of the entire society. ys, Sthita .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 On 10 Aug 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > > > > Tomar, my man-eating viscous 25lb Welsh Terrier ninja attack dog is training herself to become a ksatriya. Look out Janesh, you've been > > > warned! > > > > Sticky (as in viscous) or vicious? Either way she sounds scary! > > Viscuos attack dog? I'm ROFLMAO. Sticks to you and licks you to death? > > Frankly, I can't spell or type English worth a darn, but it actually makes more sense the way it ended up in print. Must be some kind of Krsnonian slip! ys, Sthita .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > Yes, it is not the difference of opinion , or the right to express them that is the problem , the problem is the WAY in which it is done, which the verbal combatants taking very strong positions that there is only one right way, and then using ad hominem attacks on anyone disagreeing.... > I sometimes think some of our devotees need to learn the art of how to tell each other what jerks they think they are while keeping a pleasant smile on their face. Now that's a course I would propose we need to institute in our VAD Universtities! ys, Sthita .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 On 10 Aug 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > How about this for an experiment - for a month, only respond psoitively to things you agree with instead of negatively to things you disagree with. Think of it as an austerity. > > We can also agree to disagree! Now I could agree to that! ys, Sthita .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > > > > > Tomar, my man-eating viscous 25lb Welsh Terrier ninja attack dog is training herself to become a ksatriya. Look out Janesh, you've been warned! > > > > > Sticky (as in viscous) or vicious? Either way she sounds scary! > > Viscuos attack dog? I'm ROFLMAO. Sticks to you and licks you to death? > I'm a warning ya, Janesh, and for the last time. If you dare show your face in Alachua, ya better be packing a box of handi-wipes. Sthita-dhi @ Tomar 'Ninja lips' Kukura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > > Well , if the shoe fits wear it, but I personally was making a generic > comment about the mood in general, not directing it solely at you. OK. I am relieved now. Me funny fellow thought to play a Cinderella here. > How about this for an experiment - for a month, only respond psoitively > to things you agree with instead of negatively to things you disagree > with. Think of it as an austerity. Just see, you give to people your pinky, and they grab for your whole arm. Sorry, coach. I prefer to go riding on my donkey instead of having my donkey riding me. - mnd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 1999 Report Share Posted August 10, 1999 > > > Sticky (as in viscous) or vicious? Either way she sounds scary! > > Viscuos attack dog? I'm ROFLMAO. Sticks to you and licks you to death? > I'm a warning ya, Janesh, and for the last time. If you dare show your > face in Alachua, ya better be packing a box of handi-wipes. > Sthita-dhi @ Tomar 'Ninja lips' Kukura Waw, sounds realy scary... Who will be the assistants of the duell, when our "minister of education" meets the "prime minister" face to face, in order to finish their dispute man to man, in a matter of onor? Any volunteers who stepp forward? And what weapons have you choosed? Sword, club or the good old indian tomahawk? Maybe someone should whistle the song from Enrico Moricone ..."play me the song of....." when our two combatans meet at their final showdown at Alachua. But maybe they will hold their fight peacefully and at the end like each other, we love them both and I think the citizans of "our state" also, or? ys, harsi das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 1999 Report Share Posted August 11, 1999 On 10 Aug 1999, Harsi das wrote: > > But maybe they will hold their fight peacefully and at the end like each other, we love them both and I think the citizans of "our state" also, or? > > What are you kidding, an old pudge bucket like me get in a fist-fight? Anyway, I've got Tomar the Terrible Terrier to defend me from those mean ol' ksatriyas. That's my VAD plan - I'll let ya know how it works out. ys, Sthita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 1999 Report Share Posted August 11, 1999 > > > Sorry, coach. I prefer to go riding on my donkey instead of having > my donkey riding me. > > - mnd You know the story of the man, the son, and the donkey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 1999 Report Share Posted August 11, 1999 > > > > > > Sorry, coach. I prefer to go riding on my donkey instead of having my > > donkey riding me. > > > > - mnd > > You know the story of the man, the son, and the donkey? No, tell us, go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 1999 Report Share Posted August 11, 1999 Please remove my name from the two varnasram conferences. Thank you very much. I have no more time to study all these letters. Your servant, Krsna kirtana dasi. -----Message d'origine----- De : COM: Samba (das) SDG (Mauritius) <Samba.SDG (AT) bbt (DOT) se> À : WWW: Janesvara (Dasa) ACBSP (Syracuse - USA) <jdf1 (AT) stsi (DOT) net>; COM: Varnasrama development <Varnasrama.development (AT) bbt (DOT) se> Date : samedi 7 août 1999 14:38 Objet : How to start varnasrama >[Text 2537788 from COM] > >> > Why would they force some bhaktas who are probably NOT brahmanas to go >> > out on "sankirtan" for three years? > >I dont know how things are now in the west, but there was certainly a lot of >psychological pressure put on devotees to perform to the leaders desires. If >I did not go on sankirtan I was considered heavily in Maya. No one thought >'hey maybe this boy needs to be engaged in another occupation'. If you are >constantly told how fallen you are because you dont fit into the leaders >scheme, it has an effect, especialy when one understands the value of >humility, this was often used as a tool to subjugate. > >Other leaders resorted to grosser pressure tactics, "if its not a thousand >dollars a day, its not devotional service". These things went on. In China >they can frogmarch you, we cant take it so far, although I did see some >devotees physicaly beaten by their 'leaders'. (the name Kailashchandra comes >to mind, but I might be wrong) > >> Where did you get the idea of *forcing* some bhaktas on sankirtana for >> three years? > >I was forced, it is not so unbeleivable. OK I could have stood my ground, >and refused, but I dont think it would have done much good, besides I knew I >was in 'Maya'. I was 16, 17, and not very aggressive. Should an aspiring >monk stand up, against his authorities? >> >> Anybody who has been going on the street to distribute Srila >> Prabhupada's books, will tell you that you can't force anyone >> to do it for that time. > >Maybe not physicaly force, but soviet style 'cooercion' is quite possible. >> >> Again, the *idea* of doing it for three years (if you are a temple >> devotee) is there. For those for whom it works out, fine. For those for >> whom it would not work out like that, something else will for sure be >> there. > >> something else will for sure be there. > >You are so certain? So many gurukula graduates cannot find a meaningfull >service in ISKCON. > > >> Where did you get the idea that it is first the "varnasrama college" to be >> going through, before entering the temple life style of the devotional >> service? Is it Srila Prabhupada's, really? > >That is not what he is saying. They go hand in hand. >> >> Don't expect from the people joining a Hare Krsna temple to be >> doing it so out of their interest to get some occupational, varna >> training. Where are you coming from? (in my "motherland", one would say, >> "Have you dropped here from a Mars?"). > >You have completely misunderstood the text. >> >> >> > And if the bhakta is a vaisya, sudra or ksatriya by nature this has been >> > discovered BEFORE engaging them in some incorrect, unnatural varna >> > wherein they would only become frustrated and leave. > >You make it sound so extreme. Practicaly ALL of the established religious >groups have years of training before their people become qualified. >Catholics go through FOURTEEN YEARS of training. In some of our centers you >might be luckly to get three weeks of 'training'. We are hopelessy >disorganised in this respect. > >> Where are you getting your ideas from? Since when some years of >> book distribution (for those who can make it, self-obviously) are >> "incorrect, unnatural varna engagement"? > >It is just comon sense really. If you are not suited for it, it is not >correct engagement, nor is it natural. is that difficult to understand? > >> Then you send them all not to a Hare Krsna temple. Maybe to some >> camps, where they will get the professional training. > >I am really surprised that after so long in this conference, you can still >misunderstand this most basic point. The practical training, and the >spiritual training are done, SIMULTANOUSLY. They compliment each other. We >have to live in this material world, and we have to leave it. Spiritual >training combined with the activities we need to know to feed ourselves, are >an emminently sensible way to learn. We need to see how our entire lives can >be linked to KRSNA Consciousness. >> >> Temples actually, in the classic meaning of "temple", should be >> the place for brahmanas only, engaged in the worship of deities. >> Well, in ISCKON, perhaps also the place for the brahmana-preachers. >> >> Everybody else somewhere else. > >Ok lads, cant do sankirtan?.... OUT. I thought Prabhupada had a place for us >all? > >> > This "three years in the temple and sankirtana" is brain-washing and >> > "cult consciousness". >> >> Then don't go living in the temple, if even 3 years of it is too much for >> you, and some brain-washing occultism. > >Yeah I guess we should just shut up and let this 'perfect' system we have >continue, and hopefully there will still be some devotees left, to do >something. After all everything is just dandy in ISKCON right now, I never >heard of ANY problems at all. > >> >> Srila Prabhupada was the one who established the distribution of >> his books to be the basis of the temple life and consciousness. To simply >> try to balance it in some more practical form as it used to be so far, is >> to be rather appreciated. Not condemned as a >> "brainwashing". > >Yes Srila Prabhupada was very happy to see book distribution. He also said >that washing the pots is equal service. All services equall. Eventualy >though the book distribution became 'fund raising' using dubious means, to >pay for sometimes dubious projects. > >There is no doubt that Srila Prabhupada liked and encouraged book >distribution, but his ultimate vision was much higher than that. I know for >sure that he would not force anyone on the street. The principle of service, >is that it is done with love and devotion spontaneously. As soon as you try >to force in any way, you compromise the bhakti. > >> > What if the new bhakta was a vaisya by nature from DAY ONE >> > and would have been a fantastic servitor of the cows who are suffering? >> >> Don't use "cow's suffering" as the argument against the idea of >> "3-years temple life" period. > >Cows have NOTHING to do with three years temple life? > >Cows are somehow removed from spiritual life? > >Krsna's cows, are somehow not an important part of becoming Krsna >Consciousness? > >It is this kind of casual attitude towards Krsnas Cows, that caused all the >abuse in the first place. > >These are misplaced priorities. I find it hard to beleive that you are so >fanaticaly supporting the idea, that each and every devotee MUST go out on >the street distributing books for 3 years. You are usualy so much against >any kind of 'ordering'. I guess this is just another good debate. The >opposite idea tommorow eh! Or maybe a bit of backtracking? > >> PS. You just objected to Sthita his "Chairman Mao" expression, but look >> how you are continuing with blasting away anybody's effort to do anything >> in regard to doing something practical on the field. > >You really have it in for him eh! And all he's doing is trying to remind us >about an entire facet of Krsna Consciousness that has been overlooked since >Prabhupada left. > >> The only way for somebody to not get shoot down by you, seams to be to do >> it exactly the way you would dictate. Well, yes, then get a "China" for >> yourself. > >It amazes me that you have it in for Janesvara so much, even though he >quotes from Srila Prabhupada almost verbatim. > >Cant you just give it a break? > >Try to offer something positive, instead of always picking holes. > >I mean this is the VARNASRAMA conference, so shouldnt we expect people to be >kind of into varnasrama. Is it such a crime to remind people who seem to >have misconceptions about what Srila Prabhupada desired. > >All Janesh does is write texts, you can just delete them if you want, where >is the question of force? Personaly I am very impressed how he has imbibed >Srila Prabhupadas instructions so well, and is so determined not to let the >misconceptions stay. > >Of course you will probabaly backtrack, and tell us all how much you really >are into varnasrama, and end up accepting most of the points mentioned, and >then move on and find someone else to criticise. > >Yawn... this is so boring. I have had devotees joining the practial >varnasrama conference, just because they find all this flaming so >unproductive. > >Janesh, hey I'm sorry, I'm not trying to defend you here, I just cant stand >all this negativity. > >I wonder why it is that so few other devotees join in on this conference? > >YS > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 1999 Report Share Posted August 11, 1999 > > > You know the story of the man, the son, and the donkey? > > No, tell us, go on. A man and his Young son were taking a journey with a donkey. The man rode the donkey, and the son was walking along side. Soon they heard passersby saying, "Look at that awful man, riding the donkey while his young son has to walk." So the man got off the donkey, and put his son on. Then he heard others saying "Just see how the son has no respect for the aging father, riding while his father walks." So the man got up on the donkey along with his son. The next group they met, gasped with shock. "See how cruel these people are to the donkey, both riding on him!". So the man and his son got off and both walked. Then they passed through a village, where they could hear the hoots of derision from the villagers "How foolish can you get. Walking when you have a perfectly good donkey." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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