Guest guest Posted October 25, 1999 Report Share Posted October 25, 1999 VYAPAKA DASA: MY COMMENTS WILL BE IN UPPER CASE This is terrible. What's done is done, these male cows are already slaughtered, question is HOW TO ENSURE THAT THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN ON OUR FARMS AGAIN. The only solution is to have regular observers of the herd,separate from the management, at least one for each farm. I CANNOT AGREE WITH THIS PREMISE. IT IS TOO TOP-HEAVY AND INSTITUTIONAL, AT LEAST FOR THE LONG TERM. THE ONLY WAY THAT THE COWS WILL BE PROTECTED IS WHEN THEY ARE FUNCTIONING MEMBERS OF SOCIETY, I.E. THAT THEY ARE PRODUCING FOOD. THIS GOES FOR BOTH THE COWS AND OXEN. UNTIL THE TIME THAT THE ANIMALS ARE FULFILLING A PRODUCTIVE ROLE IN SOCIETY, OTHER THAN BEING PETS, THEY ARE NOT PROTECTED. There is no need for appointment, because it is the responsibility of every devotee to ensure that this does not happen. And it possibly will, as well as the possibility/probability of other types of abuse, unless the devotee/s on each farm get to know exactly who is in the herd, and by regular observation, know exactly when one has disappeared, and raise the alarm. IF YOUR FAMILY IS GOING TO STARVE, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THE ANIMALS. ONE OF THE LATEST PROPOSALS TO HAVE A TRUST SET UP FOR THE COWS IS ALSO SHORT-SIGHTED IN MY OPINION AND LIKELY CONCEIVED BY THOSE MAKING THEIR LIVING, OR PART OF IT, BY FUND-RAISING FOR THE COWS. IT IS INSTITUTIONALIZING INEFFICIENCIES AND POOR ANIMAL HUSBANDRY PRACTICE. THE END RESULT WILL BE: "WE CAN SCREW UP BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY OUT THERE TO FIX OUR MISTAKES. OR IF IT GETS TOO HEAVY HERE I AM LEAVING AND THE FUND WILL TAKE CARE OF IT." IN ANY LARGE SOCIAL ARRANGEMENT, I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY SUCH ARRANGEMENT. THE ANIMALS MUST BE TAKEN CARE OF A HOUSEHOLDER FAMILY OR A GROUP OF FAMILIES WHO GET THEIR MILK FROM THE COWS AND THEIR GRAIN PRODUCED BY THE OXEN. If the manager is a bit crazy, or not to be trusted, the counting should be done, ideally, almost daily. If this had happened, then the alarm might have been raised before the animals were actually slaughtered. IF THE MANAGER IS A BIT CRAZY THEN WHY IS HE EVEN IN CHARGE? IT IS AN UNSUSTAINABLE SYSTEM. OWNERSHIP IS REQUIRED, AT LEAST HERE IN THE WEST. EVEN IN VRINDAVANA, I DON'T KNOW THE DEVOTEE'S NAME BUT HE SEEMS TO BE DOING A GOOD JOB SELLING MILK AND MILK PRODUCTS TO SUPPORT THE GOSHALLA. BUT THE SITUATION COULD ARISE WHERE HE IS FORCED TO LEAVE DUE TO ILLNESS OR IMMIGRATION AND THE PROGRAM IS AGAIN IN JEOPARDY. LARGE HERD SIZES DEMAND A MUCH HIGHER DEGREE OF KNOWLEDGE AND ABILITY ALONG WITH BETTER BARNS WITH GOOD VENTILLATION. THE LARGE THE HERD, THE GREATER THE RISK IS FOR DISEASE. HOWEVER, THE SITUATION IS A BIT DIFFERENT IN INDIA DUE TO COW PROTECTION BEING SO STRONG IN THE CULTURE. PERHAPS IT CAN BE ENTERTAINED THERE TO A GREATER DEGREE. I THINK THAT THE HERD THERE IS ALSO BEING MILKED BY HIRED HERDSMEN WHICH IS NOT AN OPTION IN THE WEST. Sending the GBC in every 3 months is nice but it would have been too late for these animals! Every 3 months is not enough, nor is a rubber-stamp approval necessary. All it needs is devotees with eyes and feelings. And there are plenty of those. AND WHO SAYS THE LOCAL GBC MAN KNOWS WHAT TO DO? HE COULD BE JUST AS MUCH A PART OF THE PROBLEM AS ANYONE IF HE IS UNEDUCATED. I KNOW OF ONE GBC MAN THAT IS PRESENTLY LOOKING FOR RURAL PROPERTY AND HE WILL BOTCH IT UP, GUARANTEED! DETAILS AREN'T NECESSARY BUT HAVING A CONCERNED GBC IS NOT THE SOLUTION. IT AT BEST IS A BANDAID SOLUTION. AND THAT IS NOT TAKING A CHEAP SHOP AT THE GBC. THEY CANNOT BE ON SITE DAILY. Where I live, I was never appointed, nor was I even allowed to go near the cows. However, because I do, our manager has to answer up to a lot of opposition from our community should he mistreat our cows, though there is at present still some neglect which I am working on. But gross neglect is presently not there. I feel that the cow ministry would have more luck pushing the resposibility into the hands of local devotees rather than go through the GBC, which has only ended in failure. IT IS GREAT THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO LEND A HAND. BUT THE SYSTEM IS STILL FLAWED. For instance these devotees who raised the alarm, Debbie and Damien, should be encouraged by the ministry to take up the resposibility of regular observation, and writing reports for the cow ministry, if they have time. And any other concerned devotee on any other farm. YS, Niscala YES, CONSIDERING THE SITUATION THAT WE HAVE NOW, LOCAL DEVOTEES HAVE TO HELP OUT. IT IS CERTAINLY TO THEIR CREDIT. BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT THESE ANIMALS ARE NOT FULFILLING THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES TO SOCIETY AND THEREFORE QUICKLY BECOME A BURDEN. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. IF YOU CAN ELIMINATE THEM BEING BURDENS, YOU WON'T HAVE TO BE LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER AT EVERY MOMENT. AS AN ORGANIC FARM INSPECTOR, I DO FIELD CROPS, HORTICULTURAL OPERATIONS AND PROCESSORS. BUT SOME OF THE FARMERS I VISIT DO HAVE BEEF AND DAIRY HERDS. DURING THESE VISITS I AM GENERALLY IMPRESSED WITH THE FARMERS CONSIDERATION FOR THEIR ANIMALS. THE POINT IS THAT THEY CAN'T MAKE MONEY IF THE ANIMALS ARE STRESSED. THE FACT IS THAT THEY PRODUCE LESS, GET ILL MORE OFTEN AND AS A RESULT THE MILK PRODUCTION OR AVERAGE DAILY GAINS DROP. IT IS A SIMPLE AGRONOMIC FACT. BUT ON OUR FARMS, WE SO OFTEN HEAR OF ABUSE AND NEGLECT OF THE ANIMALS. DOESN'T THIS TELL US SOMETHING. THE ANIMALS ON OUR FARMS MUST BE MADE PRODUCTIVE OTHERWISE THEY ALL COULD END UP IN THE SAME ALLEGED SITUATION AS THOSE AT MURARI SEVAKA. I CANNOT SEE THE COW STANDARDS AS BEING A GREAT HELP IN THIS MATTER. THEIR REAL CONTRIBUTION WILL BE EDUCATIVE SINCE SO FEW DEVOTEES KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF COWS/OXEN. BUT FOR THEM TO HAVE ANY REAL EFFECT, THEY MUST BE A BUDGET FOR INSPECTIONS AND FORMS OF PENALTIES TO GIVE THEM TEETH. ON THE ORGANIC LEVEL, THE TEETH COMES FROM LOST INCOME AND IN SERIOUS CASES I COULD POSSIBLY SEE FRAUD CHARGES BEING LAID THOUGH I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A CASE. ON A PRACTICAL NOTE, ISKCON SHOULD PASS A MORATORIUM ON ALL NEW COW PROGRAMS. IF THERE ISN'T SUFFICIENT FARMING ABILITY TO FEED AND TAKE CARE OF ANIMALS, THEN WHY IS IT EVEN BEING ENTERTAINED. PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE DEVOTEES LOOK UPON THEM AS PETS. I AGREE THAT THEY ARE CUTE BUT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MAINTAINING THEIR CUTENESS DOESN'T GO AWAY FOR ABOUT 15 TO 20 YEARS. THAT IS A LOT OF WORK FOR A TON OF CUTENESS. NOW IF THAT CUTENESS COMES WITH ALL THE FOOD, GRAINS AND MILK, THAT IS REQUIRED FOR THE DEITY AND FAMILY TO BE NOURISHED, THEN IT WOULD SEEM MUCH LESS OF A BURDEN. RESPECTFULLY, Vyapaka dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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