Guest guest Posted December 16, 1999 Report Share Posted December 16, 1999 "COM: Guru-Krsna (das) HDG (Alachua, FL - USA)" wrote: > As in the example above, if I > take a superexcellent motor vehicle and drive it into the wall of your > apartment building or home, that doesn't mean that the superior vehicle has > become inferior. It simple means that I, the driver, am a flaming idiot! Not > the designer of the car, not the car itself, but the *driver* was the > inferior component. So what is the solution? To continue manufacturing superior vehicles, even though most drivers are flaming idiots? No, the solution is to adapt the motor vehicle to the drivers, and reserve the superior vehicles to the superior drivers. And even a superior driver might not be able to drive the superior car if they roads are not also superior. So Gurukula might be perfect for superior children and superior parents living in a superior society. But as we have seen, it creates disaster for here and now. ys Prisni dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 > > Ah, not exactly, prabhu. When we say *best*, we mean as according to the > acaryas--who condemn the "best" institutions of mundane learning as places > of pilgrimage unto crows. What is the essential value of such "best" > institutions which simply produce dogs, hogs, camels, and asses? Everything is Krishnas energy and everything can be used in Krishnas service, it is just that some don't know how to do it. You seem to be little bit to proud about practicing bhakti-yoga. On the spiritual level you are not better from those dogs, hogs, camels and esses. And some of those whom you might think that are very fallen, might be even more spiritually advanced than you. On the material level you are not better either, because both your body and their bodies are acting under the three modes of material nature. I have met people on a street that have much more understanding of Krishna than many of ISKCON devotees. Ys. Sraddha dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 > > > So what is the solution? To continue manufacturing superior vehicles, > even though most drivers are flaming idiots? No, the solution is to > adapt the motor vehicle to the drivers, and reserve the superior > vehicles to the superior drivers. And even a superior driver might > not be able to drive the superior car if they roads are not also > superior. So Gurukula might be perfect for superior children and > superior parents living in a superior society. But as we have seen, > it creates disaster for here and now. > > ys Prisni dasi First they need to be able to handle a bicycle, then maybe they can drive a car later. But too many innocent kids have been trashed by reckless driving to leave keys in their hands for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 > > > Of course, all of the above is my humble understanding only. > > --gkd And a vivid example of the types of reasoning that were characterized to me recently as being of the type that "only make sense if you've been in ISKCON for 20 years". To glorify gurukula after all the abuse, and tenaciously stick to it, you must have a deeply calloused heart. The reaction to the gurukula system is only beggining to unwind. By extolling the virtues of such an obviously flawed system, you are opening yourself up to some of that reaction. Be advised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 Who is "they"? "They" is a very inclusive word. Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se [Madhava.Gosh.ACBSP (AT) bbt (DOT) se] Friday, December 17, 1999 7:39 PM COM: Varnasrama development Re: Gurukula First they need to be able to handle a bicycle, then maybe they can drive a car later. But too many innocent kids have been trashed by reckless driving to leave keys in their hands for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 On 17 Dec 1999, Madhava Gosh wrote: > > Of course, all of the above is my humble understanding only. > > > > --gkd >To glorify gurukula after all the abuse, and tenaciously stick to it, > you must have a deeply calloused heart. Is that a fact? Should I not glorify an ideal system as taught us by our ideal founder-acarya as essential training for our children? The reaction to the gurukula system > is > only beggining to unwind. No, prabhu, it's the reaction to the *misapplication, perversion, etc.* of the properly instituted gurukula system.... By extolling the virtues of such an obviously flawed > system, I defend Srila Prabhupada's instructions to establish gurukula, while simlultaneously condemning the malpractices of the same. >you are opening yourself up to some of that reaction. Be advised. I more fear the reaction upon those others who suggest that Srila Prabhupada's instructions to establish gurukula were somehow faulty. Hare Krsna. --gkd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 1999 Report Share Posted December 20, 1999 Hare Krishna, I think that's more on target. But I'm still a bit confused about who would take our obvious past and present failings and extol them as a model, absolute or not, for the future. Some of us have a lot of faith in Srila Prabhupada's vision and some of us clearly have doubts. Others have gone way past the point of doubt and are heading out into an unknown direction. In one sense, it's a matter of faith; and in another way, our faith means little. For example, we hear all the time, "I don't believe in God. That is a matter of faith." Or, "There's no such thing as karma or hell." The fact is, it doesn't really matter what you believe -- after death, you will find out if you were right or not. Will the future show Prabhupada's model to be correct or fatally flawed? At some point, possibly not within our lifetimes, some devotees will tire of negative effects from educational models that make unnecessary compromises with materialistic theories of education. Devotees will again wish to try implementing Srila Prabhupada's model. Let us pray that the second time around we will meet with more success in all respects. Please don't take this as a suggestion we should prematurely jump back into situations where the same mistakes are likely to be repeated. An education system takes a tremendous amount of resources, manpower, and commitment that ISKCON does not currently have at it's disposal. For the foreseeable future, local communities will have to work out their own programs for educating the children. Ultimately, the decision-making power lies with parents. Devotees who live in cultures that still respect the parent's right to determine the nature of their child's, should consider themselves fortunate. Your servant, Sri Rama das [srirama (AT) bbt (DOT) se], or [srirama (AT) jps (DOT) net] "COM: Srirama (das) ACBSP" wrote: > [Text 2866831 from COM] > > Who is "they"? "They" is a very inclusive word. Point taken. I am refering to those who take the relative example of the gurukula that evolved in ISKCON as an absolute model. I am trying to say, first small scale successful models, and not keep trying to drive the failed manifestation that we can judge by it's fruit - almost an entire generation of gurukulis who didn't turn out the way it was thoguht they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 1999 Report Share Posted December 20, 1999 "COM: Srirama (das) ACBSP" wrote: > [Text 2871272 from COM] > > Hare Krishna, > > I think that's more on target. But I'm still a bit confused about who > would take our obvious past and present failings and extol them as a model, > absolute or not, for the future. It appeared Guru Krsna was doing so. Yes, hopefully I misread him, and that none is seriously thinking of more of the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 1999 Report Share Posted December 20, 1999 > An > education system takes a tremendous amount of resources, manpower, and > commitment that ISKCON does not currently have at it's disposal. Just curious; what is the current monthly or annual budget expenditure at Mayapura for the gigantic temple plans? Last I knew it was $200 million projected for the completed project. Lately, I hear, it has been scaled back because it is no longer receiving funding from illicit funds from the Russian mafia. What is the current outlay from all combined ISKCON sources to the project? Does the BBT still send funds to the project? Do foreign temples contribute to the project? What would the value of the stored and or salvageable materials like marble, onyx, gold, silver, etc., be worth on the open market? What is the total available funds or other assets in "gurus" checking accounts or in big personal houses which was obtained in the name of ISKCON and therefore ultimately the movements money? Do the ISKCON leaders consider the big marble temple, or marble temples and material assets anywhere in the world, more important than education and varnasrama training for its citizens/children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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