Thank God the GBC has not attempted varnasrama

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Hare Krishna dasi wrote:

 

> > So, I know you are impatient. Sometimes, I'm impatient, too.

 

Janesvara answered:

 

> I am beyond impatient. I'm pissed.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry. But it is a

> horrible situation.

>

> I have no respect for anyone who is maintaining a pretentious position

> when children, women and cows are suffering. What is the priority level

> the GBC gave to Cow Protection this year in Mayapura??????? Last???????

> This should not be tolerated. They MAY, and I stress heavily - MAY - be

> able to teach spiritual life OK but they really suck at management. That

> is why there MUST be division.

 

I personally agree with both of you in this case. I agree with Hare Krishna

dasi that it can be considered a good thing (from some angles) that

varnasrama has not been introduced in ISKCON, because it could easily have

ended up as a caste system version of it, since that is what a lot of

devotees (also many of the leaders, I am afraid) still think that varnasrama

is.

 

I personally think that varnasrama is something which must come naturally,

meaning that it can happen between people who are open for it. As long as

many of the members of ISKCON are not ready to follow nature's laws when it

comes to dealings between individuals, but instead uphold a structure of

more or less blind authority, then varnasrama has a weak foundation to

flourish, in my opinion.

 

At the same time as I say this, I also want to mention that I believe that

Janesvara is right when it comes to the fact that the varnas ARE there,

whether we like it or not, and whether we recognize them or not. And it

would probably help many devotees in ISKCON if real daiva varnasrama

consciousness would start to play its part in several places in ISKCON. I

have my doubts that it will, though...

 

> > But, all things

> > considered, I think it's the healthiest thing to wait until we are a

> > little more advanced, a little more educated, and a little more mature.

> > In the

> meantime,

> > we

> > have to keep working on becoming more qualified to fulfill Prabhupada's

> > expectations for us.

>

> You see I disagree with this. What effective human cultural improvement

> program is available other than daiva varnasrama-dharma? No others have

> worked for previous empires or cultures such as: America, Rome, Britain,

> China, etc., etc. There is no modern plan that will develop the qualities

> you wish for except varnasrama-dharma (EXCEPT transcendental

> consciousness, and I hope we all have ample evidence that none of us are

> at that stage)(And even if we were, we would still follow

> varnasrama-dharma, even more so.).

 

I think I understand what you mean here, Janesvara; even if we don't have

people on the level of the Pandavas, we still all have our nature and

qualities, and even if we are on a complete beginner-level when it comes to

varnasrama, varnasrama is still there, being the manifestation of the modes

of material nature. We are not dependant that anyone else agrees before we

can introduce it to our own lives and to what we are doing.

 

>

> My suggestion - Part 1:

>

> Divide the entire world (Oh, alright, I'll settle for the movement/ISKCON)

> into four (4) TEAMS. This is very appropriate to time and circumstance in

> the world today with the emphasis on sports. My suggestion is that the

> teams be numbered as TEAM 10, TEAM 20, TEAM 30 and TEAM 40. This will

> avoid most if not all attempts at making higher and lower levels of teams

> like No.1 team or the "A" team, etc. The only significance the team

> numbers might play is that the number of members in the respective teams

> are of greater quantity than another based on natural human tendencies.

 

Interesting idea. I am not sure that ISKCON is ready for this, but I will

follow your thread anyway, because it can be interesting for whomever is

interested in who fits into each varna. (And if you get ISKCON to follow

this thread with success, my hat is off for you.)

 

> Team 10 would be primarily the EDUCATION team. Team 20 would primarily be

> the MANAGEMENT team. Team 30 would be the PRODUCTIVE team and Team 40

> would be the SERVICE Team.

>

> Team 10 would be comprised of (and I would appreciate some help filling in

> these general descriptions, please):

>

> Female and Male: Educators, intellectuals, scientists, philosophers,

> guidance counselors, astrologers, doctors(?), spiritual guides,

> ritviks(officiating priests) and ASPIRING members of all the

> aforementioned ...............more?

 

I think doctors belong in that team.

 

I guess that teachers, priests and therapists are sub-divisions of some of

the above?

 

> Team 20: Female and Male: Administrators, trained management personnel,

> property managers, asset managers, lawyers(?), security administrators,

> Administrative Assistants, Construction Managers, Human resource managers,

> inspectors, Safety managers, Public Relations managers, utility and energy

> managers, communication managers, welfare managers, Natural Resource

> managers, Judicial administrators.......and ASPIRING members of all the

> aforementioned ..............more?

 

I believe lawyers belong in that team.

 

What about army officers and police officers? (Maybe not too many of them in

ISKCON, though :-)

 

> Team 30: Female and Male: Agriculturally oriented people(cowherds,

> shepherds, cotton farmers, rice farmers, orchard farmers, florists, etc.,

> etc.), bankers, storekeepers, restaurant keepers, salespeople, miners,

> .......and ASPIRING members of all the aforementioned ...............more?

 

Producers of goods? Wholesalers?

 

> Team 40: Female and Male: Artisans, craftsmen, technicians

> (electronic/computer, mechanics, plumbing, carpenters, masons, painters,

> architects, engineers, etc.), laborers, general assistants, service

> personnel(waiters/waitresses, dishwashers, janitors, maids, .......and

> ASPIRING members of all the aforementioned ...............more?

 

Cannot think of any right now.

 

> Every member of each team can be a devotee of God. Different levels of

> each individual team member's personal development of his or her

> relationship with God is to be fully respected and manifested in the form

> of friendship and/or friendliness. Each team and team member is equally

> qualified to serve Krsna and serve the overall mission of the teams -

> maintaining a healthy body of devotees unified in the service of the Lord.

> If a little spider comes along and wants to join one of the teams and,

> through its tiny effort, contributes, then he or she is very welcome.

 

Agreed. Any person who is not a member of any of the teams can also be a

devotee of God, of course...

 

> Each team is equally dependent upon the services of the other teams and no

> team is independent of the other teams as far as policy making is

> concerned. 4 members of Team 10, 8 members of Team 20, 21 members of Team

> 30 and 4 members of Team 40 should form a ministry to legislate the

> positive social development policies and goals for the four teams. (Along

> the lines of Sri Bhishmadeva's instructions for Kings which seems

> practicable)

 

Jaya!

 

> Prejudice between teams is discouraged and constant encouragement of all

> team members of all teams is the *other* daily mantra.

 

Yes.

 

> Financing the formation, development and maintenance of the teams is to be

> top priority of all budgetary decisions for all funds of the movement.

 

Janesh, this sounds pretty good. I still don't think this will be introduced

in ISKCON, but it is something to keep for anyone who is starting up

anything with varnasrama in the front or back of the mind. I am personally

running a business which is attempted to work with varnasrama as a

foundation.