Guest guest Posted July 30, 1999 Report Share Posted July 30, 1999 "COM: Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - GB)" wrote: > [Text 2515947 from COM] > > Interesting and relevant references in connection with the > original point: "Not just vaisyas grew food". > > Here is a quote Hari Krsna Dasi posted which answers my > question: > > Prabhupada: Just see how much foolish proposal it is. So for > want of God consciousness, this mischievous > intelligence can be found. The whole economic > question can be solved. If you have got excess, > then you can trade, you can send to some place > where there is scarcity. But every man should > produce his own food. That is Vedic culture. You > get a piece of land and produce your family's > foodstuff. > > There it is "...every man should produce his own food." > > ys > > ada Yes. Of course, there is a difference between growing food for yourself and your family, which brahmans thru sudras may all do, and producing surpluses for market, which is what vaisyas do. Just growing food alone doesn't necessarily make you a vaisya. And some vaisya may be involved primarily with transporting grains and not growing anything. But anyone can at least grow some food, even the plumber here in NV has a few tomato plants tucked into his flower bed. When I was growing up in North Dakota, we grew 1000 acres of wheat, 2-3 million pounds a year. That is vaisya stuff (ignoring for the moment the fact we also raised beef). On 60% of 4000 sq feet, if you could get those same type of yields, that would be 4000/43, 560 (sq ft per acre) = .092 of an acre ..092 x (40 bushels@acre x 60 lbs@ bushel) = 220.8 lbs of wheat , say 150 to 250 pounds a year. Which is enough grain to live on for one person. Samba, what is the address of Practical Varnashram - it wasn't listed as a reciepient in the announcement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 1999 Report Share Posted July 30, 1999 > On 60% of 4000 sq feet, if you could get those same type of yields, that > would be > > 4000/43, 560 (sq ft per acre) = .092 of an acre > .092 x (40 bushels@acre x 60 lbs@ bushel) = 220.8 lbs of wheat , say 150 > to 250 pounds a year. > > Which is enough grain to live on for one person. Thanks for the neat calculation. > Samba, what is the address of Practical Varnashram - it wasn't listed as a > reciepient in the announcement? Sorry I am new to this sort of thing. I added you already, let me know if it worked. YS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 1999 Report Share Posted July 31, 1999 On 31 Jul 1999, Ajamila das wrote: > > Our godbrother, Mahakratu Prabhu, started > his own little farm in Ireland for his own maintenance and he > said it failed terribly. Life became so much more complicated > just to grow a little bit of food. I think that's what would > happen to me if I tried to live off the land. > The fact of the matter is that there is an art to agriculture -- it is no small thing to master. While many like to dabble with growing food, and such things are also encouraged even in modern society, I suspect that a VAD society also found itself depending on the proffesionals when the going gets tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 1999 Report Share Posted August 1, 1999 > The fact of the matter is that there is an art to agriculture -- it is no > small thing to master. While many like to dabble with growing food, and > such things are also encouraged even in modern society, I suspect that a > VAD society also found itself depending on the proffesionals when the > going gets tough. The fact is that although it is indeed an art, it is an art that can easily be mastered. The Amish know for a fact that when their kids grow up on the farm, they take to farming as adults without any trouble. But those who dont, can practicaly never take to it. Its as simple as that. So for us, we are in situations where it might be very difficult. So why not at least gift our children the ability to be completely independant. They are the future. Prabhupada wanted farm communities for this purpose. So many of our devotees find themselves in situations where they cannot speak against something they feel is wrong, because often they are dependant on the very authorities, they doubt. This is not at all healthy for the society or for them. The entire idea of rural agrarian (group) self sufficiency, is that the citizens are indpendant. As long as all the citizens were trained in the proper codes of varnasrama (spiritual and material), and the varnas are all present, society will go on in a more balanced way. Sure it wont be perfect, this is the prison house, but we are aiming for model prisoners. IF ever there was a grand project, this is it, but it requires a very methodical, and gradual buildup from what we have. It requires long term vision and patience. It requires very open communication. it requires that the participants are stakeholders in its success. To make such a change is a society wide program. I have not heard very much at all in this direction. Just before Harikesa left the society, we had a meeting with him at Korsnas, and he was very unhappy that the GBC did not show very much interest in the setting up of Varnasrama systems. He took us into confidence, and said he was determined to establish varnasrama in Mayapur. I was very happy to hear that at least, but then...... Its not as if any of us in this conference want anymore than the leaders taking varnasrama seriously, making it well known to all who might wish to participate, and take the right steps to encourage us all. Make some blueprints for change, circulate them, and gradualy work step by step to fill in the gaps. Leadership means taking the initiative, and pushing in the right direction. YS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 1999 Report Share Posted August 1, 1999 > > > Sorry I am new to this sort of thing. I added you already, let me know if it > worked. > > YS Yes, I'm getting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 1999 Report Share Posted August 1, 1999 > > > I've only ever grown a few watermelons when I was a kid. But now > I just don't get time. Our godbrother, Mahakratu Prabhu, started > his own little farm in Ireland for his own maintenance and he > said it failed terribly. Life became so much more complicated > just to grow a little bit of food. I think that's what would > happen to me if I tried to live off the land. Yes, this is the contradiction of simple living. It is simple from a global perspective, but very complicated from an individual experience, whereas the ugrakarmic life is very complicated froma global perspective, but very simple from a personal perspective. > I like the idea > but not the complications. I could do it if I had to. Growing > my own food does not come spontaneously for me but give me a > research project and I'll jump into it. I don't think it needs to be an all or nothing proposition. Even to grow a little, if you have the facility, is a great step. I know very few devotees will make the leap to the land completely. The whole modern socio - economic system mitigates against it. But I think at the minimum we need to acknowledge that it is at least a desirable ideal, and that Srila Prabhupada encouraged it. It is not an us or them proposition, with growers on one side and nongrowers on the other. it is more like a team effort, with a long term goal of a society where devotees grow for themselves and other devotees. Protected milk porduction is nonviable in the current situation; it requires a subsidy. That means the establishment of an endowment fund, which is an engagement for everyone operating in the cash economy, regardless if they grow any food or not. The management of such a fund will provide engagement for ksatriyas. The income produced by such a trust, and the assets held by such a trust, can provide facility for vaisyas actually on the land, and engagement for sudras. Srila Prabhupada has put forth an ideal. The GBC has approved a set of standards for cow protection that encompasses the establishment of such trusts. If we see that the GBC is a brahminical organisation, setting standards, it now remains to us to put it in practice. If we see them as a ksatriya organisation, and wait for them to do it, I am afraid we might be disappointed. > > So long as competent vaisyas make nice foods available in the > market place I'll continue studying and teaching. But if it was > an emergency I'd start a little farm. That is certainly a byproduct of encouraging devotee agriculture; in an emergency there would be a place to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 1999 Report Share Posted August 1, 1999 On 01 Aug 1999, Samba das wrote: > The fact is that although it is indeed an art, it is an art that can easily be mastered. The Amish know for a fact that when their kids grow up on the farm, they take to farming as adults without any trouble. But those who dont, can practicaly never take to it. > I agree, but my point remains there will be some who excell at these things, while most will remain amatures in comparison. Yes, everyone should be educated to appreciate the principles that keep life condusive for spiritual life. > > Just before Harikesa left the society, we had a meeting with him at Korsnas, and he was very unhappy that the GBC did not show very much interest in the setting up of Varnasrama systems. He took us into confidence, and said he was determined to establish varnasrama in Mayapur. I was very happy to hear that at least, but then...... > Look, I don't want to pick on Harikesa Prabhu, but I must admit I find myself wondering about the nature of his understanding regarding how to apply VAD, when there is so much controversy regarding his more general relationship with the various other aspects of Prabhupada's teachings. In other words, it is not enough to be disgusted by the apparent inaction of others. > > Leadership means taking the initiative, and pushing in the right direction. > > I think it might be more practical to work with a core of various leaders and devotees who are enthusiastic to work along the lines you describe and then build on that. Nothing builds enthusiasm among the more general populace like success. Even an honest attempt that fails can be a good thing, as in failure being the pillar of success. ys, Sthita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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